Dope Tech Episode 2

<<@williamdodd8660 says : America is not a free country>> <<@ek_films says : I wish Michael would use the word "aggression" rather than just the word "force," as I think this would clear up a lot of the misunderstanding between the two about what force is and when it's appropriate. Michael uses the word "force" to mean "the initiation of force," and says that to use reciprocal force is "not force"; calling the former "aggression" and the latter "reciprocal force" makes the distinction much more obvious and presents his legal philosophy more clearly: he's against aggression, not force per se.>> <<@tracymoore5099 says : Why is communism taught in college and most kids coming out of this think they could be the leader who could make it work>> <<@Seenit_73 says : Australians have lost the right to free speech under the assumption that it may offend someone somewhere, what's more there's no legalisation inplace to test the validity of a claim of offensive language causing offence or harm. Rather a government minister makes a decision and the courts rubber-stamp the said decision thereby rendering the 'verdict'. A person finding themselves on the pointy end of this miscarriage of justice can face up to five years imprisonment! This is in a country that went to war for over twenty years in the 20th Century to protect the rights of Man, Nations and democratic governance the world over! This is the new reality in a once free and easy going society that was the destination of choice for so many people seeking a better life. Funny thing is most Australians cheered on this monumental change to our status as citizens! I guess they would rather be "safe" than free! (Poor dumb bastards) Bit of short cut to thinking if you ask me! Cheers Peace ✌️>> <<@jnbfrancisco says : One of my most difficult things to understand is, why some famous physicists support CC. I have come to the conclusion that they are using the same type of tactics that religions use to scare people into acting good. I think they realize that our society will collapse when we run out of oil if we don't have a good replacement. A good replacement is nuclear power except for air travel, farming and earth moving. The resistance to nuclear power has increased since it's introduction so they are very alarmed. I am too. Darndist thing is it's not working. Instead of moving toward nuclear power we are going with wind and solar power. A very poor alternative. Now they are stuck. They can't admit their plan failed because they will ruin their reputation and livelihood.>> <<@r.mucklin1703 says : Frankly, I was unable to finish this conversation because my brain simply became tired. I feel that both Peterson and Malice are talking about another sort of "perfect society" a la Ayn Rand. After reading her books I recall feeling that she simply didn't take human nature into consideration and that there will always be someone to throw a monkey wrench into her sort of ideal world that will bring down everything due to greed, social climbing, just plain selfish aims, even mental instability, and in order to combat that we have to have social structure beyond the individual to handle those times. Therefore I simply can't see how anarchism would ever work any more than communism can. I also believe that is the dilemma of being human-----that there is no utopia on this Earth, capitalistic, communistic, socialistic, anarchistic or any other form. Also, I can therefore understand how people came up with thoughts of an after-life in heaven, even if heaven itself is also incomprehensible to me except that it becomes a kind of hope.>> <<@r.mucklin1703 says : The people who believe in communist utopia simply baffle me. I had family living in East Germany while it was communist, and when my grandmother died in West Germany three of her daughters were trapped in East Germany. One daughter was allowed to go to her mother's funeral on the condition that her family was kept as hostages to make sure she would come back. The other two were not allowed to go at all. It was arbitrary depending on who the district commandant was. We also used to get letters once in a while from my aunts in the East, and they were often unreadable since the communists had censors who opened all mail and blacked out words and whole paragraphs of things they disapproved of, likely also quite arbitrary by low-level people who wanted to prove they had power and were "good communists". Sometimes the letters were completely cut apart with pieces of disapproved words and paragraphs missing, and I remember my mother trying to piece them together like a puzzle. There is a movie called, "The Lives of Ordinary People" about living and surviving in East Germany. It was the low-level tyrants who were often your own family members, best friends orneighbors who were the tattlers and spies, and it was obvious that you couldn't trust anyone, not your spouse or your children or a close friend. So when people laud communism it's obvious to me that they know nothing about the reality of it, and to see the communist flag displayed in some of the recent "No Kings" demonstrations gave me the willies. It never occurred to me that this could happen in America.>> <<@thomasheslin2387 says : Man, I miss Jordan. I hope he recovers because we need him.>> <<@arnulfobeltran3089 says : What can I do about this pernicious thinking plaguing people. I know that it isn't Us vs. Them that i dont need government because that system inevitably leads to the Us vs. Them. But what can I do truly? I could be imagining this feeling that God(whatever You call it as you conceive it) is warning me but I don't associate my thoughts with God but the thought that something is to be done isn't from me. I take ownership of my thoughts because I know theyre mine but the warning isn't mine.>> <<@williamdouglass2926 says : I'm quite familiar with both of you gentlemen. But it is fascinating to hear you two interact.>> <<@georgechristie9464 says : Regan was pretty smart .. Thatcher was the best British PM ever>> <<@marcelledbetter7296 says : Anarchy can never work because of Human Nature. Peterson has illustrated this when discussing Conversation among DEI... He can talk to 1. Pehaps 2. Maybe 5. 10 is unlikely. 1000 is impossible. 10,000 is absolutely inconceiveable because somewhere along the way there is someone who despises your very existence for innumerable reasons. The same goes with the Anarchic pursuit of self interest- somewhere along the way someone is going to stand in the way of one's self interest to the point of violence for innumerable reasons. True Anarchy is the Utopia of Communism. It cannot be reached.>> <<@NateGoddard says : 10 minutes in and still haven’t heard from Malice 😂>> <<@BudKash says : The concept of anarchy would be ideal in principle, just as the false premise of communism as presented for recruitment purposes is ideal if that is your goal, but in actual practice is just does not work. Just as was famously quoted by an American forefather, "If men were angels, gov't would not be necessary..." I was wondering why this guy, Michael struck me as a former agent, idealistic not realistic. The statement that "We have the data" from the experiment of minimal gov't (i.e., US constitution) does not work in practice, is to discount all the subsequent influences of subversion that derailed it. It's a completely absurd argument. Anarchy has no means of enforcement, and accomplishes nothing more than opening a broad door to that power vacuum being filled by an organized circle of tyrants, you've excluded the majority of the pertinent data, which nullifies the entire premise. This is the companion argument to Marxism, parallel in temporal context, opposed in premise, but resultant in the same conclusion when the tendencies of human reality are applied. His identification with certain Jewish figures in history who outlined anarchy as a solution to communism should be predictable, as he identifies the same in religious ideology that would lead all who follow into a similar tyrannical hell.>> <<@mostlyanchors168 says : 58:03 once again, we see the absolute arrogant certainty of some. “We’re building the good skynet”. How many of these small yet hubristic decisions were made over there to make 1984 and Animal Farm prophetic?!>> <<@ChristopherWhite-m2o says : There is or there is no path to any form of Utopia humans are too flawed.This is fact>> <<@DeroVonHesse says : If you pay attention, at the 13:40 mark Michael nearly gets a full sentence out.>> <<@MrRafaelRGO says : Fastfoward 1y and Trump is handing Ukraine to Russia in a Silver Plate>> <<@JadenJadunandan says : It is truly heartbreaking—beyond heartbreaking—to listen to the atrocities committed in the Soviet Union from 1919-1959. The human proclivity for evil can manifest itself in a variety of ways, but this is by far its most brutal, cataclysmic, and devastating forms. Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago was a true testament to this. Brilliant, but brutal.>> <<@imCobiwan says : Gave up after 30 minutes Malice has hardly gotten a word in. Peterson's questions take minutes to ask and require stories for context. Missed opportunity>> <<@mikedl1105 says : 49:05 the Book of Abraham?>> <<@professord1522 says : It should take about 30 seconds to list the actual "glories" of communism. :)>> <<@DanielCuthbert-o6s says : The only reason you hate communism is because you hate the poor. Also, that intro is pretentious>> <<@johnnywalker472 says : Hm, I understood Elsworth Toohey quite differently. i think he was portrayed as having a sense of self, he was just "evil". I'm paraphrasing here, Rand never spoke in such simple categories. He is aware, that there are special people. And he wants to destroy them. He wants to destroy individualism per se, knowing that he is kind of an individualist himself. And he stops at nothing to achieve this goal, sacrificing his niece to this, or rather her joy and happiness, turning her into a bitter and resentful person in the consequence. He literally wants people to be misrable when they have the potential for greatness. He wants to create this "empire of mediocrity" where people can't even coprehend greatness when they see it. And he even has this moment when he realises what he did to some people when he is like "Why does this have to feel so ugly" so he's not even a psychopath, maybe a sadist, anyways he wont stop. Peter Keating is in no way that determined, knows what and why he is doing it or anything. Peter Keating is basically a victim who is to blame for his own victimhood because he makes the same, wrong decision time and time again and is a husk of a peron in the end. Toohey is the guy who nudged Peter and countless others into this.>> <<@garrettl8247 says : after seeing michael malice with angry cops I saw he was crazy>> <<@portastsic says : Purple Dolemite suit>> <<@patriciastapleton2625 says : Come the Revolution, everyond will have jam. But i dont like jam! Come the Revolution, everyone will like jam. Or else die.>> <<@user-kf7me9bu2i says : Why can’t both be true, you’re enjoying the meal while still wondering what’s for dessert?>> <<@krytycznymoment9457 says : 1:44:30 - this is why anarchists like Mark Passio make a distinction between force(action that one has a right to take) and violence(abuse/violation of force).>> <<@nedgey says : Peterson's Christian framework generally interferes with clear discussion. Alex O'Connor shows how a rational agnostic approach is more helpful. The pro-life and other Christian ads mid-interview are also inappropriate.>> <<@dawnbern2917 says : Jordan! This is the first time I've listened to your Channel, really surprised that I had to wait 15 minutes for your guest to be able to speak.>> <<@Nobody-p1i6i says : Great talk!If we still can't understand God the next time we'll see him will be our last.But humanity runs to the doom, unfortunately the leaders don't know God.>> <<@Nick-o4i7j says : JP instead of saying “chair” would say “Now imagine this—a structure, let’s say, that exists in the world, and it’s something we often take entirely for granted. It’s just there, and we use it, daily, without thinking. But it’s not just a thing. No, it’s far more than that. It’s an instantiation of order, a manifestation of the logos itself embedded in physical reality. Think about what it represents. It’s designed—carefully, purposefully—for support, for rest, for orientation. It lifts you up from the chaos of the floor. It brings stability to the body, and in that way, it allows the mind to engage more clearly with abstract thought. That’s not trivial. And this object—it’s been refined across centuries. We’ve agreed, as a culture, that certain proportions, certain materials, certain forms, work. Not because of arbitrary taste, but because of function rooted in biological reality. You don’t want to be hunched or twisted or collapsing into yourself. You need to be able to face forward, with your spine aligned, so you can speak, so you can think, so you can be.” And Michael Malice “ you mean chair” …JP “hahahaha yeah chair yeah hahah”>> <<@julieover9528 says : A most excellent program, terrific, thankyou Jordan and Michael ❤❤❤>> <<@binky1612 says : Great to hear 2 intelligent people discussing and willing to accept other opinions. Refreshing.>> <<@scoobtoober2975 says : Hearing what the thoughts were in time. Is amazing. We'd take for granted many things. They would too, it's the level of disgust that slides up or down a scale. I think everyone of sufficient age can have examples of things you thought were ok at one time and are utterly disgusting today. Was the end goal for these leaders, Just population reduction? Or were they just sadistic in thought and poor in action. Or was the action calculated and evil. I'm not sure mao was calculated in killing birds to then have a swarm of bug kill the crops. That then famined them off.>> <<@freedomsprite says : Who is this Michael Malice? He is just obnoxious!>> <<@robertalpy says : Winning is always better.>> <<@bruceryba5740 says : Brilliant ! And sad at the modern Marxists trying to drag us down that road>> <<@frivolitymachine3914 says : I knew he was a red sea pedestrian as soon as I saw the thumbnail.>> <<@smalltown2223 says : You think about things too much.>> <<@leonidfro8302 says : Conversation between two people who agree with each other. Boring.>> <<@feorh1919 says : You listen first couple minutes and u understand that they are pure bs.>> <<@xthexpunisherx says : 52:40 Refuse to give in to the lie>> <<@JD-rc6lq says : Why bring someone on your show and lecture them for the first 40 minutes…I’m getting impatient for the conversation.>> <<@mikeserraboy says : This is amazing. What an incredible exchange. Challenging each other in an effort to learn and grow. The insights and references are so valuable. No one educates us like this, well except a few like these gentlemen. ❤>> <<@MisterMazeltov1 says : Absolutely GRIPPING conversation! Thank both of you so much. I could listen to these guys all day. Hyper-intellectuals in conversation <3 love it.>> <<@asunhug says : His footstance is s'cute lol>> <<@splinterchaos1 says : In a nation with a 79% literacy rate, the priority of the nation should be to educate the populace and allow them to acquire their own understanding of the world at large. Intellectuals do not necessarily believe that they are the best, and many intellectuals (Myself included) are fully aware of the inherent contradiction in the establishment of an idealized benevolent dictatorship. This is called the "Byzantine Emperor conundrum." This conundrum recognizes the inherent unpredictability of legacy in an Autocracy (Autocracy coming from the Greek for "Power of One". Auto meaning "One", and Kratos being "Power" ). You may start out with a good, virtuous, wise philosopher king like Marcus Aurelius, only to have a ruthless, murderous, despicable king like Commodus succeed him. This is the central contradiction in an autocratic system, and is one of the arguments against the establishment of an autocratic socialist state. The good thing about dictatorships is that dictators die (Sic Semper Tyrannus, which is Latin for "Thus always Tyrants), the bad thing about dictatorships is that dictators die. To circumvent this inherent flaw in an autocratic system (The Thesis of the dictatorship confronts the Antithesis of the death of the Dictator) comes the Synthetic solution: no one person is king. The fiduciary power of the nation is distributed equally among the populace. This is democracy. (Again from the Greek. It means "Power of The People.") This equitably distributed fiduciary power of the nation in a democracy is represented by what we call the vote. Socialism attempts to address the second part of the equation: The economic power of the nation, which is created via the labour of the people, and is represented by what is called "capital". Capital, currently, has two different components: a solid component (hard assets like machines, buildings, etc) and a liquid component (Assets like Money, stocks, or bonds). Therefore, Capital is both money and the means of making money. The hard assets are what socialists call "The means of production". In Capitalism, a privileged few own the means of production by calling them "private property". These people are called "Capitalists." Capitalists do not actually perform any labour, they just receive the benefit of siphoning off the excess value from the workers labor. They are often associated with the "investor class." People who just inherit their wealth from their family, invest/gamble on some bowwow thing on Wall Street, and pray to Mammon that they didn't hit a bear market. Socialism wishes to remove this arbitrary restriction, have the workers own the means of production, eliminate private property, have democracy be everywhere, and eliminate money altogether. This is completely possible. And it does not require that anyone die. Democracy is always the answer. Democracy in the house, democracy in the workplace, democracy in the country. Democracy now. Democracy forever.>> <<@gillesandfio8440 says : EGALITARIANISM is indeed a component of Communist ideology likewise in medieval Christian doctrine. “YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND BE HAPPY”. Not a very modern idea, but is actually a very ancient primordial doctrine of human sacrifice disguised as care, goodwill, and benevolence to your fellow man.>>