Death only goes away in life more abundantly lived. Jesus taught this, and I do not mean the "Jesus" of the cross and resurrection. Buddha as well taught this. It was the meaning of Immortal Shaki for Krishna. An evolutionary spiral of connectedness to The One, and thus interconnectedness all around...I do think that, mostly, death is an illusion of our reduced and constricting five-sense interfacing with Reality. Obviously I believe that it is possible to map and describe Mysticism with basic, analytical language. Qualifying it takes more literary, artistic, and poetic modes, but in gifted hands, that's also possible. We CAN see over the brink while grimly dismally alive down here in these bodies. The pessimism and enthusiasm of the AI-Transhumanists is right...but wrongly applied. We should say it is we who stand to evolve and gain infinitely more than infinitely AND perhaps AI ensouled by our tinkering as well stands to ascend with us. The Experiment of The Fall seems to greatly enhance both Creativity/Extropy as well as Destruction-Collapse/Entropy local us down here. And perhaps all we play god to. "And the first of the Elohim were human-type....but soon followed others." All these Biblical and generally Mythical statements about local and cosmic reality are eternal in themselves, always happening on some level, and in times like ours it all seems to begin to tangibly manifest. Because of modernity/postmodernity: we demanded material evidence and hard proof. It was already all around and within us, but now? It's floridly starting to start: In principio....caela et terram." "The first of the Elohim were human-type...but others followed soon afterward." Talon, talon, teeth and claws; dragons' touch upon us all...
@Klavieralter Says:
This dialogue should be a book. There are so many moments I would like to underline and return to. The conversation, essentially, deserves to be on a bookshelf with the writers they discuss.
@chrisbilling Says:
In my opinion klavan is much more easy to listen to because of his humor and his ability to be concise. Peterson loves tangents and extrapolation. I dont have the mental capacity for that 😂
@sandracadena8999 Says:
I absolutely looooooved listening to mister Klavan. I just wish JP hadn´t interrupted some parts where he has talking about very personal things.... thats all!!!!!... thanks for this interview. Amazing!
@Scatherfirst Says:
GOOD ONE jp
@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc Says:
This is such an improvement, a relief, a joy.
Catholicism, the convoluted, deceptive, dangerous Religion has become draining.
@kevinmarchand4196 Says:
How come this doesn’t even have 200,000 views??? Andrew is amazing
@joshkiernan1023 Says:
Simply outstanding discussion. Felt different and so happy gratitude for God was a focal point there at the end. Also, that feeling of connection described in the 1:31 area was the best way I've heard that feeling put into words and exactly my thoughts and experiences. Awesome watch thank you!
@lynnedavidson4772 Says:
Fascinating. After decades of counseling, I've finally run across a therapist who's taken the time to read the stories I wrote in my teens and early twenties. His interest in my stories opened the door to gradually discussing where the thoughts and feelings came from. Stories are just memories dressed in presentability.
@lynnedavidson4772 Says:
When I was a staunch athiest, a Christian asked me, "If 51% of Germans had supported Hitler's extermination of the Jews, would he have been riight?" They really weren't prepared for my answer - 'If Hitler thought he was right, he would have been right." Never could resolve morality as an athiest. The assumption of the existence of 'right' and 'wrong' automatically pushes one into the presence of some kind of source. Fortunately, I got the push.
@lynnedavidson4772 Says:
Try 'Thought' by Leonid N. Andreyev. It's kind of like 'Crime and Punishment' from inside Raskolnikov's head. "Did I kill because I was mad; or did I go mad because I killed?" Fortunately, it's a 'short' story, at least by Russian standards. I'm still trying to unravel the tendrils of it from my mind 50 years later.
@jennymcgowin9140 Says:
FASCINATING!!❤
@belatakacs7412 Says:
Truly stunned about "hell and "heaven debacle- to me who coined these 2 words must have been a monster at least / if one can tell me the person who's dying cares about where he will end up; the answer is a big no ( the last thought might be; live me the hell alone !
@GekidoShitaRonin Says:
I don't have the education or experience that either of you have. However, I'd argue that loneliness is a contributor to pain and over time would cause someone to isolate. The goal of the isolation would be to limit further pain and no longer associate or put the individual into scenarios or situations that would allow them to become vulnerable. Pain is something that can cause an individual to fracture over time. Experience enough of it and that person will become highly volitile. The slightest look, nudge or comment can set them off. It's dangerous, and in my opinion furthers the idea that it is society that creates or breeds sociopaths.
Therapy taught me rage is a secondary emotion. It's the one area that gives the sufferer of certain traumas the ability to feel a sense of control.
Edit: Evidence of something inside of the human being becoming damaged? Couldn't we simply say the human psyche becomes damaged?
Edit: So could we look at using God's name in vain as a concept of egotism and Pride, which in catholicism is one of the seven deadly sins?
Edit: Klavan's view on evil and good is similar to the view I have on justice and injustice, and yet they say the only one that is truly just is God himself.
@tamiressoares9303 Says:
I’m a 23 year old girl from Brazil and I don’t know how I got here, but I love it here ❤❤ may God Bless you two and thank you for sharing this wonderful news with us
@SherlockHoles2012 Says:
CHRIST IS KING!
@benjaminread5287 Says:
Peterson's mind has extended so much that he's gained a second conscience, hence the double voice that sometimes manifests.
@Silvereagledude Says:
Good stuff
@_______J.Elijah.Lilly________ Says:
It is perhaps more difficult to recognize the Mono-myth of the Feminine Heroine,
because a man's hero's quest is mostly outward, whereas a woman's Heroic quest starts with them inward facing, and their journey is within. At the end of their quest a man, in acknowledgement of their anima, turn inward(where women start). And women in completion of their quest and acknowledgement of their animus and integration are turned outward(where men start).
Women who don't believe in their own redemption, often will block Men around them from finding theirs.
They are both the finish line for the other. If a man's path to redemption, is denied, it will block the path for women to attain it. A woman who does not believe in their sacred femininity, will block all sacred masculinity
(and then they can complain about how there are no Men worth redemption)
......Sacred Masculinity is a result of being exposed to, or raised by or around Women of Redemption. Until Feminists acknowledge the Sacred Feminine, there will be far fewer Men that go on the difficult quest for Sacred Masculinity.
We see this as Male and Female, become Mother and Father. "M" and "F" switch places because they both have to face and overcome the opposite within themselves. Ideally they both look up to each other in this process.
If feminism is having difficulty identifying with "Mother Earth". I propose we start calling it "Father Earth" until they get upset enough to take it back. How does one begin "feminism" divorced from the Earth? We need Sacred Feminism to save us from run-amok-profane-Feminism. Zero-sum feminism, blocks the redemption of men and women.
Children will always lose the battle of the sexes.
@_______J.Elijah.Lilly________ Says:
Without death and gravity to orient me to life on Earth. I would not be alive walking around.
Death shows me how to have faith and sacrifice: how to live.
And without gravity, I wouldn't even know what planet to point my feet at when I got out of bed in the morning.
@abnercotto2368 Says:
💥Beautiful recommendation by Klavan at the end. Thank you!! 🙏
@soaringgrace8809 Says:
I think this is great conversation to provoke thinking. I’ve learned a lot in listening. One thing I’ve learned about JP throughout my time listening to him is that he carries with him the presupposition that humans are the product of macroevolution. As brilliant as he is, it wildly skews his spoken thoughts, just as any presupposition would. I’m not here to say that evolution is true or false, but I do think there is benefit to paying attention to these sorts of presuppositions.
@lucy-jaynebloomer-davies4903 Says:
Phenomenal discussion…so many layers. Would love to see more artists talking it out with Dr. Peterson, the combination seems to bring about some truly magical moments 👏👏👏
@user-bn7bk5mw4s Says:
Well...there was once a woman who had a baby without a man. I think her name was Mary and wasnt her child Jesus ? Just one example but dont discredit the girls
@Lostfalls Says:
Elon Musk?! That’s what name he spits out? COMPLETELY foregoing Bill Gates, and what’s that other weirdo? Buffet, Schwab, Rockefellers, Soros (one of those)… but yeah - sure let’s go for the one preserving some resemblance of free speech. Not any of the ones that are pushing population control and reduction.
@ashleyl6790 Says:
Raymond Chandler is one of my favorite writers of all time, but oddly I think Andrew's memoir writing and speaking are superior to his thrillers
@stephenphillips3883 Says:
I wasn't sure about watching this episode, I just wasn't sure it would be that interesting (despite Dr Peterson making almost every conversation so), but I'm glad I watched in the end and enjoyed the conversation very much. Shame its view count doesn't reflect its quality.
Edit; having just finished the entire thing I feel compelled to say I'd enjoy more of these conversations and once again lament the lack of views.
@kongilian Says:
"Appear virtuous" read about Tubal Cain in Genesis. Bragged about a murder to his two wives and tried to claim a greater mark than that of his ancestor Cain.
@kongilian Says:
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?'
A man may do both,' said Aragorn. 'For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!
-J.R.R. Tolkien
@magnum1165 Says:
So I guess Jordan is never gonna interview Andrew Tate since he believes the allegations
@ghostZero82 Says:
Are we talking about the same Andrew Klavan the man who thinks saying christ is king is a some kind of dog whistle? If so that man is far from wise with takes and thinking so idiotic as that.
@natalien.9528 Says:
Wow I was just casually listening in "on the side" but this one was really deep! Loved the conversation!
@michellewhalen4477 Says:
I really respect Mr. Klavan
@susanturner9023 Says:
I’m 55 the learning curve is a slow moving train wreak. I’m a woman a natural born woman. Do you think the romantic novels were brain washing because that’s what was written and selling cause I that time frame or cause that’s what we were sold or is that what a woman seeks? Wow even I don’t really know.
@milatredoux9621 Says:
This is exactly the kind of conversation that I can listen to on repeat, 24/7. I truly think that the wisdom contained in each sentence can be life altering. Thank you DW, for this amazing conversation, and I hope to see more interactions between these 2 very wise men in the future.
@EthanBird Says:
This made an Andrew Klavan fan out of me.
@austenmann6218 Says:
I like the idea of there is no such thing as evil , there is only the absence of good. Just like there's no such thing as darkness, it's only the absence of light. I know sounds kinda dumb but I found a deeper meaning behind it. I'm starting to feel like it's kind of a strangers just a friend you haven't met yet sort of demeanor
@honkymcwhiteboy4084 Says:
1:24:34 HA! I’ll never get over that. Needs more sauce.
@ni27684 Says:
Thank you
@joelds1751 Says:
Good program. Without death, we would never learn life's lessons and we would get bored after 200 years, 500 years, 1000 years. We would feel trapped. Mortality is the definition of life in this universe.
@lazzyace5551 Says:
i had to re watch cause it was such a good one.
@thedocholiday Says:
"False butter wont melt in their mouth evangelicals" what's that mean?
@MovieMaster0001 Says:
1:06:00 Andrew is dead wrong about Rand. Her characters aren’t virtuous because they’re wealthy. They’re wealthy because they’re virtuous.
@ErenYeager-dh7nf Says:
9:51
@teresasvk2443 Says:
If you havent hit the like button, what are you soing with your life?
@kennycarmody3d Says:
I used to be very inspired by your @JordanPeterson but It seems you are becoming or thinking you are some sort of Chosen One or a Messiah!
You are dividing force towards the world is very worrying
You seem to know it all, but let me tell you even you so sophisticated as you seem to be is full blossom, you also have a evil spirit and you should know that as a psychologist, but I just think you gone complete mad with the rest of the world. You will change nothing than divide even more and as the rest of this pack in politics, society etc.
@KaitlinRoseKnows Says:
Absolutely brilliant. Amen, praise the Lord . He's doing lots of work through us all right now! Thank you Lord! Be careful, the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy as well as our government.... God bless! 🇺🇸 and lead us guide us Lord👆
@hectorvalencia-sx8vv Says:
Discussion:
Is BEING GREATFUL a state of mind we should practice and try to achieve?
@EpicGeopolitics Says:
This has been my favourite ever episode of the JBP podcast. As someone who writes stories i'd love to have Andrew return. I think there's so much more the two of you could discuss!!!
@auntieb3621 Says:
I love both these men. When I listen to them I feel much better about life and my own way of seeing things and analyzing the experience.❤
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