Is faith independent of reason? Or taken one step further, should we NOT purposely seek evidence for religious truth and/or ignore the evidence when it's presented to us? In this video, Frank describes a conversation he had with a Mormon who was not open to the idea of answering questions about the Kalam cosmological argument because of his faith. Let's continue to pray for our Mormon neighbors and friends!
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#Mormonism #ChristianApologetics #Fideists
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@drdoomer8152 Says:
Youre a fideist damn protestant
@LDS-ConfidenceinChrist Says:
Official doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is NOT that there are many gods. There is God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. By the Father’s loving kindness and the Son’s atoning grace, we are made to be like them, even as they are, to sit in Christ’s throne as joint-heirs. Eternal regression of gods has never been an official doctrine. Eternal progression, however, is right there in scripture.
@nute742 Says:
Im open to the evidence and Im lds! (ask me any questions you want)
@Kopaka-ep7ug Says:
Mormon here. I love Frank Turek. His arguments against my religion aren’t well thought out or accurate but honestly im fine with that because he’s not really there to argue against Mormonism. I get the sense that what he’s really about it is arguing FOR Christianity AGAINST secularism. That’s where he shines and that’s where he spends most his efforts. And good on him for that!
@MarkHolmberg Says:
Romans 8:15-18
@byuphil Says:
Frank, I've been a subscriber to your channel for a few years now. I appreciate the work you do in defending Christ and His gospel. It was disappointing to see this video. The evidences for the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ are abundant and compelling. I invite you to consider the evidence. Yes, we believe we can become like Heavenly Father. Jesus commanded His disciples to “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect.” We take Him at His word. Also, it is not church doctrine that we will get our own planet. Some may have speculated that notion, but the church has made it clear that that is not doctrine. I hope you will thoughtfully consider these things and do a little (or even a lot) more research before making such comments and representations of others' beliefs in the future. Thank you and God bless! P.S. I don't believe you made these statements maliciously, but ignorantly. I hope that is the case.
@NewCreationInChrist896 Says:
Romans 10:9-10
@mikechristian-vn1le Says:
the Mormons have backed away from their teaching that God the Father had a father, and that he had a father, etc., and instead say something like "no one know what happened before God," but they continue to teach that very good Mormons can and will become just like God the Father. Isaiah 43:10 " . . . before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
@elultimoinka8412 Says:
"If they are not open to reason, the only thing you can do is to pray for them and love them"
This phrase is a gem of wisdom that we can apply with any person whose beliefs or way of thinking are different from ours werther they are Christians, Muslims, Jewish, atheists, LGBTQ, etc, etc.
@brianandersen1629 Says:
This is pure gold for atheists. Christians criticizing other christians.
@budgetsquid0639 Says:
The belief from the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints is the definition of Christianity God becoming man through His nature which is all why we Worship his Son the King of Man. The first Mortal man on this Earth too do So.
@TPUSAFaith Says:
There is only ONE TRUE God. 🙌🏼
@Weller85 Says:
An uncaused first cause is a case from special pleading.
@davidsinclair47 Says:
The first Mormon missionaries I had any contact with were really excited about the fact that they could become gods but with my background in the Bible I was well aware that this was the lie of Satan that has caused so much trouble.
@nothingbutthetruth613 Says:
Why would anyone NOT be a Christian if Christianity was true? Of course they would. It's not even like there would be some sort of burdensome commitment if you say you will be a Christian. Being a Christian entails doing absolutely nothing but saying you believe. I never understood this question from Frank. It's a moot question though anyway since it is not possible to prove it is true.
@silive4067 Says:
I have a question that doesn’t have to do with this video but I went to the most recent video hoping that I can get a answer. My question is when Jesus body was not found in the tomb after his resurrection wouldn’t there be more accounts of Roman soldiers converting to Christianity? Because if they knew the tomb was guarded, sealed, and blocked by a rock, wouldn’t they know there is no way the disciples could’ve took the body. Therefore making them convert to Christianity?
@gunitrunning6352 Says:
Frank Turek, please take James White up on his offer to join him in a discussion about Calvinism. I would like to see this happen. I’m sure a lot of people would like to see this interaction between the two of you on the subject of Calvinism.
@MrWhitelightning73 Says:
Say no to dead works religion and believe THE GOSPEL (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)❤
@NemoDrummer Says:
That seems like a very superficial (skin deep) analysis of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--not to mention the fact that the proper name of the church wasn't even mentioned. Perhaps deeply and thoroughly research nothing but that for the next few years and then make a more informed statement.
@kevinwesterville2115 Says:
When you say you support science but believe in magic it’s hard to engage.
@shawnnewman8280 Says:
What I find funny is they believe Joseph Smith and the new testament but, the Apostle Paul who was way before Joseph Smith said if anyone which includes Joseph Smith comes to you with a different gospel than the one we preached do not receive him or his false gospel. That's the biggest contradictory thing Paul heard from Jesus, Himself and Joseph Smith heard from some "angel" that is NEVER MENTIONED in either old, or new testament.
@gerardovelasquez7150 Says:
Proverbs 28:26 NKJV
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
@jaredpinkney94 Says:
Serious question: why can’t you go on an infinite regress?
@badideass Says:
Mormons are very friendly people, Christians should try and act more like them.
@kevinwesterville2115 Says:
It’s all voodoo
@NOOBKILLER052 Says:
Infinite regression of gods is not official doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Latter-day Saints worship and acknowledge God the Eternal Father, His Son, the Lord Jesus who is the Christ, our redeemer, exemplar and mediator with the Father and the Holy Ghost which is the witness of a Truth. These three are, indeed, three separate beings, but act as one God united in love, purpose and even thought in ways we cannot comprehend. So NO we do not worship many gods.
We agree with Paul: “Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (1 Corinthians 8:4-6 ESV)
THAT is the word of the Lord and the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
@NickSandt Says:
My recent Bible studies turned me into a henotheist, which is a new word for me. It’s the belief in many Gods, as the Bible portrays, but the worship of only one.
@outof_obscurity Says:
But you're not an "orthodox" Christian. You're a Protestant. You're a reformed Catholic. Catholicism isn't even orthodox Christianity, it's orthodox Christianity that fell into apostasy.
@mikesarno7973 Says:
Not so fast, Dr Turek! It's gods all the way down!
@piegros Says:
Good
@ta3p-theannex3project84 Says:
You can swap imaginairy friends. Whats the problem? Mormons, lds, jw, rc, calvanists, moslims, jew, hindu and al of the denominations, collections of fantasys. And only one is true or none?
@LetsTalk-HaydenCarroll Says:
Respectfully, Frank, you often straw-man us Mormons. You've done it again with labeling us as "faith alone" people. We do not only rely on one medium for discovering God's truth. Please have me or another Mormon on to discuss. You're not providing a fair representation. This isn't the first time I've seen you do this.
@matthewn2559 Says:
Present to any person the Law much like Ray Comfort does. We don't think we need chemotherapy when we are unaware we have cancer.
@nasticanasta Says:
it's the "Both-And" idea that Hindu and Buddist's use
@boltrooktwo Says:
They aren’t polytheists that’s a slogan misrepresentation, lies to not support your arguments. Religion is for only one God but there are other gods that are to be rejected, the Bible talks of them, stick to the Bible not your philosophy.
@boltrooktwo Says:
The creeds and philosophies of the 3rd and 6th centuries are a corruption that make the doctrine not true, just, and honest. The Bible talks about the beginning of this world, not the Big Bang beginning of the universe which now has evidence against it as a theory. You can’t have real justice if we did not pre-exist this world otherwise we are built robots with all our parameters set by God.
@alexwilliams4264 Says:
Sounds like Christianity, no Proof you just have to have faith. Just read the bible have faith you're a christian!! Wow that works for me 🤣 LMFAO
@boltrooktwo Says:
Misrepresenting their faith by saying it is all on feelings. The evidence is the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is more consistent philosophically with the Bible, is more consistent with justice, love, and mercy that is the message of the word of God. Protestantism is this general belief that there is no true church, just anybody believes in a certain canon of scripture that isn’t closed and uses the name of Jesus. That isn’t Christ’s church.
@lordtrikill1508 Says:
Mormons are a weird bunch
@AMessengerofTruth Says:
Joseph Smith is someone who claimed to have received revelation from God. Of course, his "revelation" directly contradicts many teachings in the Bible.
And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
The Bible is the only true Word of God. Removing or ignoring certain parts is idolatry, and adding more is idolatry. Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, etc. All of these are simply the devil's fake religions meant to lead you to hell.
There's the truth -- which is revealed in the Bible.. And then there's religion -- any beliefs contrary to the truth.
The truth is that every religion is works-based. This is why the Bible is so controversial.
"Do this, do that, so that your good outweighs your bad before you die so you can go to heaven" - Religion
"You're inherently evil. You can't do good. Everything 'good' you do is tainted by your selfish desire to appear as 'good' to other people or to whatever fake god you worship. Everybody deserves hell, but out of God's graciousness and mercy, He chooses to change the hearts of some people so that they can follow Him and please Him. Of course, Jesus pays for His sheep's(believers) sins, not the goats(unbelievers) who have to pay for their own sin. You must be born of the spirit to see the kingdom of God. You can't believe in Jesus and receive eternal life unless God gifts you faith. You can't get into heaven by choice or by good deeds, you can only get into heaven by God's grace. Only after the Holy Spirit dwells within someone is that person able to do something truly good in God's eyes. Every person is a slave to sin and only Jesus can set you free, not your own 'good' works." - The Bible
Truly, this is why the Bible is so offensive to people and why people follow these fake religions. The Bible makes the man small and God big. All the religions put the power to control your destiny in your hands, not God's. It's all foolish. Christianity is essentially the anti-religion lol
@larzman651 Says:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD JESUS and believe in thy heart that GOD raised him from the dead thou shalt be Saved 🙌
@wateringthefate3890 Says:
I like debating the 24 disciples but they won't teach the12 Jesus spent so much life with. They cling to their 12 and steal bits of the Bible to back THEM UP? The whole Bible lines up with the 12 God chosen. 12 gates to enter his KINGDOM by. Only 12. Get it or REMAIN lost.
@dadsonworldwide3238 Says:
Im no Mormon but they don't allow deep time mythology to corrupt their interpretational ability to be in many super positions and weigh measure the world .mastaring realiviy of thought is impressive tools .
The industrial revolutionary mindset was obsessed with consumption and materialism we seen it in everything and everywhere. Paradolia of the mind caused us to corrupt our instruments and interpretations of evidence and discovery. We are built ok this experiment that is failing in all fields of academics ..stagnet for 70 years now stuck in the transitor age.
Evaluationary mythology and deep time can't be saved by manifolds or bending every james Webb observation to fit the narrative. we can't continue to tune instruments to give us the answers to save models in all fields of study. From climate to 500 million year old soft tissue in labs all over the world.
Anyone who is trying to interpret the Bible based on evolution or deep time is failing to miss the point .
even as a humanist no matter your demonstion ,atheist , agnostic, pagan climate/nature worshipper or just a woke nihlist individual you have a belief system you put faith in and it shapes your works view that you use to interpret the world with. If you build this worship on the details of deep time details then your going to be destroyed when those theoretical details change.
And they are changing now with computation as it influences a revival of idealism and better comparables and explanations of evidence that we see.
@burninatorthe Says:
I'm confused, aren't all religions ultimately faith-based? Ultimately can any religion really proven by "evidence"?
@wateringthefate3890 Says:
Well let's add up who God loves more; the poor. He did not want to keep them poor, just to build a temple a poor man can never enter😒 without so much tithe of Ceasar to get entrance fee in just to enter a house built off Ceasar labour and the cult who follows them as suppportive means.
@trinahaifa2860 Says:
Mormons have a saying that goes, "Don't research yourself out of the faith." And this is cus they all know that it takes less than an hour's worth of research to get sufficient evidence to disprove their Doctrine! Also, I think that partly because their belief is so work-based that they really are such sincerely exceptionally kind loving caring people. 😢💔 MUCH MORE SO THAN THE MAJORITY OF other Christian denominations!! Way too many wolves and goats within the church today.
@gorillaz_jbi Says:
Fideism is the idea that religious faith and reason are incompatible with each other. It is the view that religious faith is separate from reason and cannot be reconciled with it. According to fideism, faith involves a degree of absolute certainty and personal commitment that goes beyond what can be rationally justified. Therefore, one cannot and should not seek evidence for religious belief.
A Christian who embraces the philosophy of fideism would say that the rational and scientific arguments for God are irrelevant because the essence of true Christianity is that people are saved by faith alone. Man’s rational abilities have been corrupted by sin and are untrustworthy, and the truths taught in Scripture must be believed even if they cannot be supported through logic or reason. In the simplest terms, it is the belief that if one could prove the existence of God, then faith would not be necessary or relevant.
Many of the earlier writings on fideism came about as a response to the increasing reliance on human reasoning that was made popular by rationalism. One of the early advocates of fideism was the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (1813-1855). He believed that because faith is characterized by absolute certainty and passionate personal commitment, it can never be supported by reason.
To substantiate his view of the relationship of faith and reason, Kierkegaard put forth three arguments, the first of which is the Approximation Argument. According to Kierkegaard, arguments can never prove things with absolute certainty because it is always possible that the evidence to support the argument has been misinterpreted, or that an error in reasoning has occurred. He believed that since faith requires absolute certainty, which cannot be attained through rational argument, then faith must always go beyond the evidence, and, therefore, it cannot be supported by reason.
His second argument was the Postponement Argument. This argument is based on his belief that there is always the possibility of new data or evidence that will invalidate previous conclusions. Therefore if we were to base our faith on rational scientific investigation, we would have to wait forever until all the data is in. In order to have the certainty that faith demands, one must choose to believe what cannot be acquired from scientific investigation.
His third argument was the Passion Argument. This argument emphasizes the personal commitment that is inherent in faith. He felt that since our evidence is imperfect at best, there is risk involved in believing any conclusion. He thought that the faith that goes against all known evidence is the most valuable because it is the riskiest faith of all. His view was that if we had conclusive evidence for God’s existence then belief in God would be unremarkable and uninteresting. In other words, if we could prove God’s existence through evidence or reason, then faith would be unnecessary.
Another well-known advocate of fideism was Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) a French mathematician, physicist and religious philosopher. He considered the various proposed proofs for the existence of God as being irrelevant, and instead of focusing on them he invited skeptics to view faith in God as a cost-free choice that had the potential for reward. Instead of trying to argue for the existence of God, he instead emphasized that it might be of value to assume that God truly exists. His argument was basically presented as a win/win situation. If you believe in God and He does exist, you win, while, on the other hand, if you believe in God and He does not exist, you have lost nothing. This is best seen in what is known as Pascal’s Wager: “Either God is or he is not. If you wager he does exist and he doesn’t you haven’t lost anything. If he does exist you win everything. Therefore wager on God. From a standpoint of reason, faith in God is an even bet, but the existential dice are highly loaded in favor of having faith.”
Christian fideism has both strengths and weaknesses. One of its strengths is that it correctly acknowledges that rational and logical arguments cannot ultimately prove the existence of a transcendent God as revealed in Scripture. It also correctly acknowledges neither evidence nor reason is an adequate basis for faith in God. That is because faith is based on who God is and the surety of His promises and not in the evidence of His existence.
On the other hand, one of the shortcomings of Christian fideism is that a faith which is not both reasonable and logical will only be as strong as we feel at that given moment in time. The strength of our faith then rests upon our own strength and will likely wax and wane depending on our circumstances. However, faith that is founded on fact is both reasonable and logical and as such has many outside evidences to support it and strengthen it. Understanding the rational and logical foundations of our faith in Christ helps to lay a very solid foundation that will help us withstand life’s storms. While we cannot prove God’s existence scientifically, we certainly have ample evidence of His existence in creation alone (Psalm 19:1-3; Romans 1:18-32).
@phadrus Says:
Mormons aren’t polytheists. They are closer to henotheists. Meaning they believe the scriptures and Jesus teach men are becoming like gods, that there are councils of gods, and similarly as ancient Christians, Catholics and orthodox believe that the purpose on earth is to become more like god and inherit the things of God, however they only worship the one God who is Heavenly Father. Usually when I see evangelicals talk about “mormon” beliefs they do a very poor job and barely know what they are talking about let alone their own theological Hellenistic biases and beliefs. Many times it’s just laughably bad.
@blank557 Says:
Mormons are not "Polytheists" That implies they worship multiple deities. They do not. Our prayers and sacrament is always directed to God and Christ. No one can demonstrate any prayer or ordinance performed in the Church directed at anyone else. The official name of our Church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. "Mormons" is a nickname derived from the Book of Mormon. No one calls other Christian faiths "Bibles", nor Muslims "Korans" becasue their faith are based on those books. LDS also accept the Bible as the word of God, and treat it and the Book of Mormon as both valid witnessess of Christ. Are Protestant churches named after Luther, Wesley, John the Baptist, and such considered non-Christians?
That "burning" that LDS members mention Mr. Turek derides regarding proof of the Holy Spirit testifying of the truth is a reference to the two men on the road to Emmaus who felt the spirit when the resurrected Christ walked with them. I don't understand how he thinks that reference is a misguided description of the effect of the Holy Ghost upon witnessing to people of the truth of Christ. He can have his doctrinal issues with the Church, but he cannot determine what is going on in someone's heart who claims the Holy Ghost bears witness to themselves in such a manner. That is beyond his power to judge one's spiritual witness and sincerity.
I do admire much of what Mr. Turek talks about Christianity in general. But he talks with authority drawn from the Bible, which makes him no different that thousands of others who claim to do so, yet they all form their own churches and doctrines, and none of them are unified together as one, but compete with one another to draw converts to follow their interpretation. I challenge Mr.Turek to explain why no church today is set up like the original church Christ established, with apostles and prophets, who are commissioned by God Himself to interpret the scriptures and express doctrine, to prevent the splintering of the Gospel among hundreds of thousands of Christian faiths today. The Bible indeed does talk about an apostasy the befell the early Church establish by Christ, but nothing in the Bible states that it was not longer necessary or to be a permanent situation until He comes again. Acts 3:21 is clear about a restoration of His church before His return. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only Church that has the same organization that Christ established, with a prophet and 12 apostles. That is a bold claim, and except for the Catholic Church, few if any Protestant churches today claim they have a prophet to receive direct revelation from God to lead his followers. They depend on the mortal logic of man alone, which explains why they are all doctrinal divided today, something Christ never intended.
Again, I think Mr, Turek is sincere, knowledgeable and a good man. But his declarations of his understanding are limited by his own mortal logic. Unless he can claim divine revelation like a prophet of old from biblical times, his beliefs are just that, limited by his own understanding of the Bible and God, and no different from all the other well-meaning evangelists who would disagree with him on certain biblical points, for the sale of keeping their congregations separated from one another following the personalty of their respective leaders, instead of uniting as one, as Christ intended.
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