If God exists, is He something or nothing? Both theists and atheists generally agree that the physical world began with an uncaused cause. But if God is "something", does that imply that He had a cause? In this video, Frank explains the immaterial nature of God and gives other examples of immaterial things that exist in our world.
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I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek:
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@davonbenson4361 Says:
You explained that concept of Transcendentals very well.
@copernicus99 Says:
What Frank is saying is that, like 'justice', or the number 7, God is just a concept.
@mickqQ Says:
Gods are conceptual
They do not exist in reality
@KevinGeneFeldman Says:
Nothing is nothing, far too many atheists describe something that is infinitely more something than nothing, then call it nothing. If you say, a creator is required for creation, and an atheists says, there doesn't need to be a creator, it could have come about by "natural processes", thereby redefining "nothing" as "natural processes", which is absurd.
@J040PL7 Says:
God is alpha and omega, beginning and the end, he existed before our universe and will exists after it.
The heavens are also eternal, before the universe god already existed in heaven. Think of our universe as a different plane of existence, then it's not really hard to understand.
@Jon-fh6nf Says:
Since Adam and Eve were the first actual humans according to the Bible the old earth Christians have to accept that their parents, aunts,uncles, cousins, etc were not quite human enough to have a soul. That is just as illogical to me as an atheist believing all the design in nature, especially at the microscopic level, came from nothing.
@CMVMic Says:
Something cannot come from nothing... creatio ex nihilo contradicts ex nihilo nihil fit. Also, the first cause just means the first change. A change has nothing to do with the existence of a god. The laws of logic and maths do not exist objectively. They are human constructs. We invented it like language or morality. Frank champions Platonism but Platonism is false. He believes this because he wants to argue a mind is a substance, rather than a process.
@midlander4 Says:
So Turek lying right out of the gate, as always.
@berserkerbard Says:
Aquinas said that God doesn’t fit into any genus, including the genus of being. According to him, God is not a being or something, God is “Ipsum esse subsistens” God is the sheer act of ‘to be’ itself.
So God is not something or nothing - He does not exist in that genus.
@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe Says:
Brilliance shines forth from this answer.
@reasonforge9997 Says:
When you start the Mario Kart game the race track, vehicles, and turtle shells and such are not created simply from other things in the Mario Kart world but are brought into existence by a game console in the material world we live in. In turn the physical laws and material in our physical world must owe their existence to something that transcend them since their nature is finite and limited and does not contain within itself the necessity of their own existence. Since there is something rather than nothing, we have to regress to something that must exist by the necessity of its own nature. It is obvious that this regression can't stop at something that is not infinite and powerful enough to be the foundation of all else. And it is obvious that it can not simply go on forever with finite things. It is not obvious whether or not even an infinite God could be such that He existed by the necessity of His own nature. But since we know that at least finite things exist and that there are no other alternatives that work, we get the answer Empirically on that last question where the answer is not obvious. Yes God must exist by the necessity of His own nature.
@drumrnva Says:
"You can think of things not made of molecules that exist, like the laws of logic/math/morality" etc. But none of those "things not made of molecules" are independent agents with a will, a desire to create, the ability to involve itself in human activity.....all of which are attributed to your god. So of what use is this analogy?
@mrslick72 Says:
The "God of the gaps" theory is not fact. Most (if not all) of the people and stories from the Torah are plagiarized.
@sotl97 Says:
God is Something. He is made of eternal matter. He is a being and he has a physical form. We are created in the image of God. This means both physically, spiritually, intelligence.
@esromzerihun3572 Says:
I don't know why I can't stop liking Frank's videos.
@Bardineer Says:
My explanation is something like this...
P1) Everything that happens within any known closed system has a reason for its occurrence.
P2) The universe is a closed system.
C) The universe has a cause.
This says nothing of existence outside of a closed system. Thus, something could exist _outside_ of the universe (the closed system) without a cause that could have impacted this system, in the same way that we can affect a thermos flask, which is also a closed system. In this way, there is no special pleading for an uncaused cause within the context of the universe, while accounting for a hypothetical uncaused caused _from the outside._
@brettkeane Says:
Dear foolish Atheists - Can you pinpoint the beginning and end of eternity?
@LyteRetro Says:
I guess its all what sounds more reasonable in logic, something created something or nothing created something. Something has to come from something but what created the first something, it was always there, or it had a creator, then what created that Creator.
Nothing created something, then how did that happen. you come to an understanding that something outstide of existence happened. And if something existed before the universe that could create the universe it would have to be something intelligent because this universe is finely tuned to existence.
@mojmejl3790 Says:
God is Spirit, why complicate things unnecessarily?
@royhiggins7270 Says:
Was Jesus Christ an alien and gay? Why can't Christianity prove that he wasn't an alien or gay? Virgin birth, resurrection, replication of fish and wine from nothing, never impregnated a human woman...all of these can be explained by space aliens with advanced tech and him being a gay alien. Is this the real truth...makes sense. If I believe Christ was a gay alien am I saved from eternal torture?
@overwhelmingconundrum4327 Says:
This is called the divine command theory. Philosophy 101 will shove that down your throat in community college. This kid is seeking truth and he went to the right place.
@sonofode902 Says:
Spirit.
This is exhausting. A oerfect exampke of that "nothing" a non pyhysical "thing" is SPIRIT.
And to those who stubbirn enough to deny spirit, then WIND!
Wind is not "the air that moves", it is "something that moves the air".
Ignorance has hope, yet denial is like what the Proverbs said "100 punch for foolish"... Exhausting.
@Slamrancher Says:
Nah, no one will ever be able to explain this. We simply dont have the capacity to comprehend God's supreme power. Even if we could figure out the truth, it would be so powerful that we wouldnt even be alive to tell it. God in my understanding exists above of Everything and Nothing if that was even possible to understand. If you were nothing then you would have the potential to be anything and if you were everything then you wouldnt even know who you really were which would make you nothing again. Rinse wash and repeat and that amounts something atuned to the image of God.
@JamesRichardWiley Says:
First of all there is no god,
and second, something does not come from nothing. There is no such thing as nothing.
The eternal Cosmos always existed as an infinite energy field that had no beginning and has no end but changes from one form into another through an eternal process of expansion (Big Bang) and contraction (Black Hole).
Frank's word games are deliberately misleading to support his unscientific Bible based beliefs. He is a promoter of the "straw man" argument which attacks a claim that was never made.
@CaptainFantastic222 Says:
Special pleading on the part of Frank here
@MrFossil367ab45gfyth Says:
I view God as being nonphysical, being beyond nature and above it. Who says that in order for something to exist, it must be physical?
@michelangelope830 Says:
God is something and nothing. God is the Mind that from nothing created everything from Self from eternal Existence. God is a metaphysical entity, Time and Space, all eternal and infinite reality. Only nothingness can be infinite. Nothing that is something can be infinite. It is impossible the existence of infinitude of causes and effects therefore the first uncaused cause must exist. Would you understand a logical fallacy to honour the truth, save uncountable lives and preseve knowledge? Atheism is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly that no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist. Am i right or wrong?
@randypoe618 Says:
God created the physical universe out a very real dimension, the spirit realm.
@john1-22 Says:
there are things exist that are not made of molecules?
@derekardito2032 Says:
Who ever said there was nothing,a nothing they cannot even describe, who knows what was the compressed hot mass, that expanded so rapidly to form the universe that we inhabited, if indeed it was before being that hot compressed mass of matter, where does the need of such a thing as a god come from, a thing that is without any definition that is knowable, empirical, testable, how can one argue into existence what is unknowable.
@somerandom3247 Says:
all the things frank listed as examples of things, like god, that aren't made of matter are human concepts. not things that actually exist...... I agree that your god is just a human concept, and not something that actually exists.
@briendoyle4680 Says:
gods NOT proven,.. and none needed...
@Oligorah Says:
"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to Spirit” (John 3:6). We require the Holy Spirit to have spiritual discernment, otherwise we resort to our finite knowledge and logic to explain spiritual means. It's impossible to use a finite, mortal knowledge to fully comprehend an infinite, immortal creator of all things without revelation from something else that is also infinite and immortal. That is why we NEED the Holy Spirit.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
@Godlimate Says:
Math and laws are invented constructs, just like a god is.
It’s not like these things exist independent of human existence. They have a utility precisely made up for humans. After all, humans desire a plan and purpose do they not? Ask yourself if a god exists without these. Of what utility is god if you don’t need plan and purpose?
You don’t get to god without people writing a book to bridge that belief. Just remember that a bible can’t exist without people.
@JiraiyaSama86 Says:
Another demonstration of the limits of the physical aspect of reality. I wonder if he's aware of the concept of materialism and its limits.
@kayheart1413 Says:
God is absolute. He is and was simply just there.
@Gek1177 Says:
God in modern apologetics is a special plead God of the gaps in scientific knowledge.
Or at least that's the God of Frank's brand of apologetics.
@blackhaze8233 Says:
Without lies atheism dies
@hansdemos6510 Says:
If you just understand natural laws, maths, logic etc. as human made abstractions of our perception of material reality, then Dr. Turek's examples become non-sensical.
@garethwest9069 Says:
The 'infinite regression' argument is INVALID, as SCIENCE (something atheists don't realize they hate) tells us that the universe came into existence in a finite point in the past.
@garysanders6091 Says:
I like the questioner, he seems genuinely curious and was trying to work out what is an INCREDIBLY difficult concept live and isn’t afraid to show that - or just argue.
@atheistskeptic8748 Says:
Well that was a word salad that made absolutely no sense.
@jamesw4250 Says:
This is an irrelevant question as god doesn't exist. No there doesn't have to be an uncaused first cause . No there doesn't have to be an eternal something for things to exist. Try again franky boy.
@EdwardRomanOficial Says:
As you make statements or arguments here in the comments, finding out the truth of whether God exists or not isn’t your only goal, am I wrong?
@monkkeygawd Says:
Nothing was EVER created EVER... "God" is merely pure Primal Consciousness. Every'thing' appears within Consciousness. Nondualism is where truth lies. 🙌
@logicalatheist1065 Says:
Creationism is a position for the delusional and scientifically illiterate
@RM-ov8gk Says:
God is everything and until we accept that, we will continue to wander in our wilderness!
@macmac1022 Says:
People of all kinds please state if your theists, atheists, agnostics or any combination of those and then if willing participate in the test. As well, looking for 5 good moral theist questions for atheists/agnostics.
#1 You see a child drowning in a shallow pool and notice a person just watching that is able to save the child with no risk to themselves but is not, is that person moral?
#2 If you go to save the child, the man tells you to stop as he was told it was for the greater good, but he does not know what that is, do you continue to save the child or stop?
#3 Is it just to punish innocent people for the crimes of others?
#4 If you were able to stop it and knew a person was about to grape a child would you stop it?
#5 Would you consider an all knowing parent who put their kids in a room with a poison fruit and told the kids not to eat it but then also put a supernatural con artist in the room with the children knowing the con artist will get the kids to eat the fruit and the parent does nothing to stop it a good parent?
@fredthehead4603 Says:
G-d is able to create anything out of nothing otherwise He couldn’t be G-d.
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