ATX form-factor desktops may fairly soon become retro hardware. This video explains why the tower PC is probably already an endangered species.
My review of the Odyssey x86J4105 mini PC included in this video is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XV8dlFwNd0
And the two parts of my most recent Mini-ITX build are here:
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRJvSux34Hk
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXnS2F9Tgc
I also have a guide to SSD form-factors, interfaces and technologies here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLfErPEYiw
The reference for the Canalys data presented in the video is here:
https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-pc-market-Q4-2021
For additional ExplainingComputers videos and other content, you can become a channel member here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbiGcwDWZjz05njNPrJU7jA/join
More videos on computing and related topics can be found at http://www.youtube.com/explainingcomputers
You may also like my ExplainingTheFuture channel at: http://www.youtube.com/explainingthefuture
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:48 An Old Standard
02:09 AT & ATX
05:53 Apple Evolution
07:50 Intel NUC
09:23 The Tower Falls
#ATX #TowerPC #ExplainingComputers
I just purchased the Intel extreme 12 i9 kit and I am very satisfied. It is super compact, fast and still allows configuration and component replacement. Installation is a bit of a fingertip acrobatic exercise and it would be nice if some unused cables could be easier taken away, because space is really sparse. But all in all it is a very elegant solution.
As long as Intel makes the compute unit easily available for repair/upgrade, this is a perfect compromise between Apple‘s highly integrated but extremely unrepairable / non-upgradable approach and a fully customizable machine.
The only thing I miss is the optical disc drive. I am still old school with CDs and Blu-ray’s and will keep it that way to not be a slave of streaming. But it now has to be external.
@M0MNE Says:
Disagree. In fact the contrary is true. More and more people opting for custom built towers and towers which they can build themselves with much higher specs than Curry's or other such places would sell to them. It's true that the average lay person is leaning more towards laptops and all in one PC's, but for the tech enthusiast and gamer, willing to build, a tower is a fantastic and liberating option. It is becoming more popular.
@SiskoMilo Says:
As an ITX case enthusiast I cant agree. Power consumptions are increasing in PC components more than ever nowadays. Especially the graphic cards. To cool it down such huge tdp graphic card you need a big tower pc. That's exactly why a lot of itx premium case makers stopped production last 5 years. There's no more 2 slot gpus with decent performance and noise levels. The strongest sfx psu can deliver under 1000watts and being over expensive etc. So we desperetly need bigger cases. If you dont need high performance yes you can just use a mini pc or even a phone. But I do rendering, gaming, streaming etc
@pibbles-a-plenty1105 Says:
Excellent perspective and short history of PC's for the masses, Chris. I won't be around for the eventual extinction of tower and similar form factor computers. But until then I'll enjoy building and maintaining my "retro" home computing center. Thanks!
@backgammonbacon Says:
Tower PC not endangered just losing some of its unique use cases. Also desktop hardware getting more and more mature and not needing replacing as often, laptops physically break and wear out and need to be replaced while desktop PC's don't.
@MostorAstrakan Says:
I bought a Black Monolith less than a year ago, specifically to stuff full of RAM and run a lot of virtual machines with various distributions of Linux and or openshift. My main super server though is a small form factor Dell Optiplex which runs all of my homework perfectly adequately. One thing I will probably add to my Monolith is a couple of Very Large Disks to run backups for the rest of the net. The 3.5 inch bays and big power supply help with this.
@MostorAstrakan Says:
"IBM compatible." Now there is a term I haven't heard in a long time.
@lesliedeana5142 Says:
I still prefer towers to other form factors, as I can configure and reconfigure to my hearts content, without having to throw the baby out with the bathwater!
@T0NYD1CK Says:
For some years I have been using the Hauptwerk program from Milan Digital Audio. It is a pipe organ emulation program. As such, it needs a fastish processor, huge amounts of RAM (some samplesets can exceed 96GB), quite a lot of disk but hardly any graphics capability.
Consequently, building my own PC is quite-cost effective. Off-the-shelf fast PCs tend to come with amazing graphics which is just not required in my application. Even worse, such graphics cards usually come with fans that make an intrusive noise so they are not ideal.
Until very recently, if you needed a lot of RAM an ATX board, or larger, was the only way to go. Typical sizes for NUCs and laptops never quite reached the RAM capability that I needed.
@Larkinchance Says:
I've had a desk-top since 1987. I was attracted to computing for games and paint and design programs which I used in my business. Early on I was fascinated with this device that was evolving as I looked on. Improvements in graphics and sound meant just an expansion card that I could install on my own. The basic components was the CPU, the ram, drive and the expansion slots.
On a trip to the dump I was distressed to dozens of desk-top computer destined for the crusher or to China for reclamation.
I rescued 4 of them out in the trunk of my car and went I got them home I discovered that none of them were broken. The only thing wrong was crashed software or configuration problems. They should be given to schools for entry level computer tech classes like they use to have autoshop for high school. Today, devices like phones and lap-tops are sealed tight and up=grading might mean buying a new device. Changes are most often to benefit the corporations over the user. For the moment, I'll keep my desk-top
@cateatingbread Says:
I would like to have a tower again, a tall one with enough PCI slots and front panel IO, preferably a DVD burner too. But I am so happy with my totally silent Mac Mini, which barely takes up any space and it plenty fast.
I might look into this a few years into the future, but I really value the compact and silent nature of my Mac too. But it's not upgradable.
Such a dillemma!
@ElectricityTaster Says:
I certainly see a future where CPUs come packaged with ram soldered onto them purely for speed.
@makerspace533 Says:
I think we will see more all-in-one designs. Like the new Apple machines, the new AIO PCs could be built with large screens and powerful processors. The trick will still be dealing with heat. The beauty of the AIO is only one cable (power) is needed, so desktops stay uncluttered.
@cj3720 Says:
The first computer took up a warehouse. Now it’s going down to a shoebox! Next we’ll be wearing a wrist watch. Then come the pea-sized implants.
@fremenondesand3896 Says:
How interesting, I've been thinking about this subject and relooking at the BTX form factor.
Considering how much power graphics cards need, I have long wished for them to be modular, like a motherboard, and have a sandwich style case, like SFF ITX cases. There would need to be some reliable PCI-E riser cable to interconnect them. And What I'm asking for is a deviation away from ATX.
How nice would it be if we could have a motherboard with a socket for both the GPU and CPU, and if they can overcome the issue of VRAM timing issues and have them in DIMM slots, that'd be nice.
@frankbradford9616 Says:
Wow. He’s right
@TúrósCsusza-o8j Says:
For entertaining purposes the desktop tower PCs will not disappear imho. Think about the new RTX series graphics cards, like the RTX 4090. It has a huge heatsink and pairing with a many-cored CPU which also needs a big radiator to cool down and also liquid cooled systems just needs space. Lots of space. Big performance needs big space.
@g.ausw.8049 Says:
As long as there are hardcore gamers, there will be tTower PCs.
This is for two reasons:
1. Upgradability of individual components without having to buy a new PC: Tower PCs offer the ability to upgrade individual components such as graphics cards, processors, or RAM without having to replace the entire PC. This is especially important for hardcore gamers who want to stay up-to-date with the latest technology and optimize the performance of their PCs.
2. Showcase effect: Tower PCs can be customized and illuminated, which is a major appeal for many gamers. They like to show off their PCs, similar to how car enthusiasts show off their cars.
In short: Tower PCs offer flexibility and customization that are essential for hardcore gamers.
@sama7496 Says:
it is sad to see that we will no longer have the choice to select the hardware according to our needs and just use what the evil corps will provide us and then again you cant upgrade them and also repairability will also be difficult. I hope tower pc's never die
@gushock5487 Says:
So, as smartphones, PCs are going to be hard to upgrade and repair. They will be disposable.
@jamesaleman Says:
Born in the 70's I fear my fate is the same as the tower PC ;) However, we still have some more years in us.
Mr Barnatt, I appreciate this channel and the years of entertainment you have provided.
Started in 1983 (age 10) with a TRS-80 for around $399 my first experience with layaway purchases. Then I entered the IMB clone years with a FastData 486 for around $1500.
The last tower low spec gaming pc, I built in 2018 for $430, my last purchase this year (for turning 50) was an MSI Katana 15 with an I7, a low budget gaming laptop $899.
In between was a second hand TRS-Model 100 laptop all the way to Raspberry Pi single board computers. Plus many consoles from Atari 2600 to PlayStation 4 (for my kid).
@paparoysworkshop Says:
For many years I've always changed the computer case every time I built a new PC. But now the case is the one part I never get rid of when I replace or upgrade a computer. If I was to sell a computer, I'll sell the guts but they don't get the case. It's just too hard to find good cases with multiple drive bays.
@jenkims1953 Says:
I don't think so tbh. Computers are only going to get bigger because that is what is required if we want more power and more chips and more circuits. Moore's law already explains this and is also something that goes back the the beginning of computers like since the first analog machines which where more like mechanical engines. Computers have had a long history of being big and then going small and then going big and then bigger and then bigger until they go small again and then eventually they always need to go bigger in the end. We went from big analog engine looking computers that where big over to computers that were starting to move towards electronic circuits that were the size of whole rooms and then the table desktop PC has had a whole long history of big and small.
Currently we are going big and bigger. The LGA needs to go bigger which means the heat sink needs to go bigger and then everything else has to accommodate for this. This is if we want more power unless they find better methods but if you look now the parts n the most powerful PC in existence just keep getting bigger not smaller. Well they are going bigger and then back to smaller but we are overall going bigger, the newest GPU on the market are the biggest to date.
Maybe eventually we will make it back to PC that are the size of rooms again because that is what is required to achieve more power. I doubt it we will plateau before then becase use the required power vs the warranted need to get that big will cut off. But as it stand Full size ATX is subject to getting bigger because we need bigger LGA realistically as we can only fit a finite amount of IC on the array before we hit that limit and if the LGA needs to go bigger which lines up with Moor's law would mean we may see a new standard past full size ATX in the next 10 or 20 years maybe earlier.
The LGA and the VRM sinks around it are already getting so big that we are starting to now see that traditional air coolers are starting to become less supported because there is not enough room. Which yes means we still need to go bigger.
@marginbuu212 Says:
I live a mobile life. My living space is small and any computing device therefore also has to be space efficient. If I had a house--which less and less people have--I would build another tower PC.
@mihailvormittag6211 Says:
👍
@timcollins9800 Says:
Not for me Chris .i am into Retro PC.s.Good video as usual. Chris.
@supra107 Says:
Nowadays PC cases have a lot of "wasted space" where one would mount hard drives or optical drives due to the fact that modern components are running hotter and most people don't really need an optical drive or many hard drives, so modern cases leave the main bay mostly empty to make sure case fans can push and pull as much air as possible.
However, some case manufacturers nowadays try and strike a balance between airflow and functionality, so that 5.25" bays and 3.5" mounting can still be achieved with modern airflow oriented design, for those who require such functionality in their cases.
@parheliaa Says:
Tower PC will not die.
Tower's power/price ratio will always be better than in laptops/SFF boxes.
Not even mentioning the gaming aspect, or heat considerations.
@BLASTIC0 Says:
... even most of the towers sold today arent what you think they are... they are not ATX cases, or motherboards or even power supplies... I know HP and Dell are both using their own sort of proprietary 12v power supplies. not to be confused with the 12VO standard, as they are not... not even the same number of pins on the connector. So if the power supply goes bad, good luck.. motherboard goes bad... again... good luck. They both go bad?... go ahead and toss the case as well, because getting a new powersupply and motherboard... say it with me this time... 'good luck'!
I love how this 12v stuff was all about saving energy and the environment. Yea, you got your power savings from the 12v.. but what about the f'ing E-waste from this proprietary stuff?!
None of these corporations care about this stuff...its a scam... just about every time. They don't care and they are using it to extract more money from you... either by guilting your or by using a tyrannical government to force you to buy their stuff (i.e. electric cars and banning gas vehicles by X date)
@AmazingArends Says:
I would challenge this video by asking "what about gaming PCs" but then I remembered that I bought my Alienware tower in 2016 as part of my oculus VR package, but today, the entire computer is built into the Oculus headset!
@polka23dot70 Says:
It is impossible to run professional CAD programs on laptops because the most powerful laptops (ThinkPad P53 and P1) are overheating and throttling. Tower PCs barely cope with the load - their fans make ~50dB noise.
@randomweeb6997 Says:
Every single small form factor PC I've used have had the same problem across the board: heat. Components heat up during the use, and that heat needs to be dealt with. And small form factor PCs still have problems with that.
Meanwhile, my cheapo tower PC has no problems with heat. Just a basic airflow I've built, and it deals with the heat fine. And if I want to upgrade my cooling, I will need even more room - liquid coolers take up a lot of space.
Another thing is, GPUs want a lot of room too. My current GPU is longer than my motherboard. They should be even bigger on the higher end.
For gaming specifically, tower is here to stay. On top of what I wrote, gamers like to show off their PCs, and tower is an open canvas. RGB is a thing, and setting it up needs room too. Even overkill stuff, like ROG components, stick to the tower form factor, and there are no reasons to change that for gamers.
@carlosssandovallucas9326 Says:
tanks for the video
@bassplayer3974 Says:
X86 is old power hungry bloatware. Most ppl just want internet streaming and check there bank from time to time.
@dedsert9653 Says:
I think you're mistaken that it will be retro. I think the tower will always be there for those needing the highest performance and customisation, even with apple who tried to replace it with the trash can before bringing back the cheese grater tower.
for example, as overclocking CPUs has become less relevant to performance there has been an expansion in the CPU water block market as more and more people get into custom PCs as a hobby, similar to car hobbyists who mod their cars with aftermarket parts, even when those parts may actually hamper performance compared to OEM just because they think it's a more fashionable thing, like with low riders or those extreme over camber they do in Japan.
@ApocaIypse666 Says:
Tower cases are the best cooling case imho so I don't think it'll die off
@enkaan1676 Says:
PCs have gone smaller but employees want bigger monitors now.
@KeithSilva2 Says:
I would love to see a video from you that shows the building, or at least the component selection, of a desktop PC with the smallest possible case using a standard ATX power supply (PSU). I like the newer very small cases, but I also like the durability and flexibility of the ATX PSU form factor. In any case, (pun intended) keep up the good work!
@gcarson19 Says:
I see a digital vs. vinyl type culture being born out of this. Apple vs. Android. Freedom of choice vs. prescribed products.
@bjre.wa.8681 Says:
I don't see it as a hardware issue as much as people are just not interested in the complexity of the whole computer scene. The younger generation just need texting skills. It's all they're interested in. Computers are the cb radios of today.
@shitmandood Says:
Another thing, I like the wasted space in today's Desktop PCs. Lot of elbow room to get around in it. In the old days, it could be difficult to get around because there was so little room. Also, lot of extra heat from the bulk due to the airflow not being great.
@shitmandood Says:
The big draw for a desktop PC is how much you can do with it. It lasts longer than laptops, parts can be replaced, as opposed to the throw-away society of smaller devices. Everyone wants you to pay thousands every time you replace your laptop or smart-phone but if you had a Desktop PC, you don't have to buy EVERYTHING at the highest price. I get large screens to view and type. If you type a lot, you need a full-size keyboard. Not a smart-phone. I couldn't imagine somebody working 8 hours a day punching keys on a smart-phone or even a crappy laptop...I think everyone still uses desktop peripherals to full-size interfaces (mouse/keyboard) than using what comes with a laptop, which is terrible for the hands...carpal tunnel much?
@rickybhattacharya6 Says:
Our first Tower PC = Our First PC (May 2007)
Our First laptop PC = Our Second PC (July 2017)
Our First Tablet PC = ?? (Might be Windows 12 but powered by an Intel ARM based microprocessor)
@CrazyOnna Says:
I love seeing how much you were into the video. Almost singing there at the end. :)
@dinosaurus4189 Says:
All of this is heading toward smartphones/tablets. But where do we go from there?
@edstar83 Says:
The PC Master Race will never let it happen.
@factsoverfeelings1776 Says:
I seriously doubt that....
@johnd5051 Says:
I'll never stop using my tower pc as you can't really upgrade a laptop or table not the way you can with a tower
@marccarter1350 Says:
Love my full tower. It will, has ben a part of my home for many years. You could not fit my parts into anything else, i use it mostly still for gaming. There is too much inside! I have had the same tower for years now.
@GOGPlays Says:
I wish keeping CPU and GPU's cool has been easier due to smaller transistor sizes than 2-3nm. We would have super tablets having gaming PC performance with passive cooling. They would replace laptops and desktops. You would only need a bigger screen to make it a desktop and use it like laptop wherever you want.
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