For some, Romans 9:13 is a tough pill to swallow: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' What does it mean? Does God really love some people and hate others? See Frank's response during a recent interview with Leighton Flowers and then catch the rest of the conversation here! ? https://bit.ly/3VLt1Az
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@jackiesmith2710 Says:
God dose not love everyone. God is a God of wisdom! Dose God love the devil No, Dose God love people who are demonic that acts like the Devil NO
Dose God love preachers who Lie and steal in his name NO its a yes and no question
@alihoussney7870 Says:
God does hate sinners (Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5). Let us not ignore these Psalms, Frank. Divine love is reserved by God only for His elect.
@Little_Muskrat13 Says:
Good job, Frank and Leighton. ✝️👍👍
@jeremycremeans1854 Says:
Trash half christians here. They hate God's sovereignty.
Beware of these idiots who can't deal with the true scriptures. It's just another calvary chapel cult.
Its a joke they call their outline the actual interpretation of the chapter 9 of romans when they didnt actually do anything. They dismissed the clear language of the text and arrogantly moved along.
@ElijahRamsey-c6b Says:
In this video He didn't even really finish answering the question because it was cut short. This was hardly edifying, why wasn't the video longer?
@North3rnKindomSaints Says:
😮 ..... Wow ...
@bozman247 Says:
They are laughing about Gods wrath. Nice
@deltadom33 Says:
I like that God hate me and loves you
@deltadom33 Says:
Amazing
@wataboutya9310 Says:
If God loved everybody, annihilating the entire population of the earth with the exception of eight humans is hardly a good example.
@atyt11 Says:
Frank, like Dr. Flowers, I love your ministry. I listen often. Question? Why not call out Allen Parr for his stance? His million followers are great, but pushing his book and agenda on your show was confusing to me. He said, on your show..."God created us all to be sinners" 34m36s. He is a self professed calvinist, should he not be debated and made to explain his views???
@JW-rn5ee Says:
Frank avoids the initial question altogether. Leighton hits it on the head @1:10 and takes Frank to the mat for a tap out. Predestination/Election is Biblical
no matter what any of us think. See Romans 8:29- KJV.
@SawarimHaqq Says:
God doesn't love everyone. There. Was that so hard to say?
@markhamdesigns Says:
That was the largest side step I’ve ever seen. If a Mormon gave a non answer “you have to look at the context“ answer to a tough question, like that you would be laughing even more. I can’t believe you published this clip, it should be embarrassing for you.
@wannabewoodworker9705 Says:
It’s a reference to Genesis 25.
Jacob and Esau represent nations in Rebekah’s womb. God elected one nation to SERVE the other. Not to arbitrarily save one twin and damn the other. Love and hate sometimes mean to “prefer” in scripture or to chose one over the other.
Soteriology 101 & Beyond the Fundamentals are two channels ran by former calvinists who now debunk the false teaching by walking through the misunderstood passages.
@Glorious716 Says:
✝️🙏🏽❤️
@hozn Says:
“The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 ESV
@jeanniestaller797 Says:
I would have liked to hear more of this since Frank didn't answer all the arguments presented in this clip. I understand that the word "hate" doesn't men what we think of it as here but more like "rejected" in the sense that he wasn't the chosen one to fulfill God's plan for Israel.
@rshreve735 Says:
You did not answer the question
@singwithpowerinfo5815 Says:
Wow. That was an incredibly weak argument. Then again, we’ve come to expect that Frank.
@paulwin87 Says:
I like you Frank, but on this topic I think you should go deeper (listen to some John Piper, or other). I really didn't get the point of your answer. It was not persuasive at all
@96tolife Says:
It is a Hebraic Idiom. It means to love more. It is like saying that God loves Jacob so much that by comparison it is as if He hates Esau.
@tims.449 Says:
God promised Abraham and Sarah a son. They could not wait and got preg with Esau with a slave. God hated what Esau stood for, it was not a part of His plan to bring a redeemer into the world. So you can read in Gal. 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
[22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
[23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
[24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.(spelled Hagar in Genesis)
[25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her (Hagar's) children.
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
[27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[29] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
[31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
God's most excellent plan of salvation is Paul's salvation. Not the salvation of Moses thru the law. Phil. 1:19
Acts 28 [24] And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
[25] This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
[26] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
@2ndPigeon Says:
Imagine how much you hate people if you want to torture them forever just because they don't believe what you want them to believe.
Can you imagine a person like that?
@rachelhayhurst-mason7846 Says:
So many people believe things that smear God's character. That is the foundational reason for loss of faith & also mental illness.
God's Word says anything that is not from faith is sin (Rom.14:23). Many times beliefs that threaten people's faith are confronted in the Bible. That is serious.
We must take the whole counsel of scripture and reject single verses that seem to contradict other scriptures. With translation some meaning is unclear, which is why we must study God's Word alongside Him and *know* it.
@kathytrump3080 Says:
If God made people for Salvation and others for damnation, why are we trying to bring people to salvation?
@povoq83 Says:
God created mankind for judgment to show his justice. Judgment is not eternal hellfire. Its according to their deeds as said in Romans 2.
The elect are the exception. We are not going to judgment because Christ already payed.
@jaggedlines2257 Says:
I was getting quite excited with Frank's quick overview of the book of Romans when the vid ended abruptly.
With regard to Romans 9 to 11 let me bring your attention to John Murray's introduction to his excellent commentary of the book of Romans volume 2.
As Frank says, the apostle Paul could have gone straight from chapter 8 to chapter 12.
Murray answers these questions in an excellent and professional manner.
I will limit my contribution to just a few lines.
In chapter 9, Paul addresses the UNBELIEF of the Jews. They are not innocent men, even though they claim that they are God's people.
Page 32 of Murray's volume 2 of his book to the Romans, 9:21 Murray writes that God is not dealing with men as men, but men as sinners.
I think we need to keep this in perspective when we talk about whether God is right or wrong in his judgement of all people.
This is the correct Calvinist view.
@ecarrillo71 Says:
Book of Romans:
Condemnation, Justification, Santification, Glorification
Israel’s past, present and future.
@ryanmathew4503 Says:
I'm not trying to cause any unnecssary division, but if you just replay the first minute of the video, Dr. Flowers is simply reiterating Scripture but in a mocking tone. It's one thing to have disagreements but he literally was just reiterating Romans 9 and laughing it off as foolish, without giving any real reason as to why it shouldn't be interpreted as it's read. I don't care if they're not Calvinists (still believe they are both believers), but just think if they're wrong about this passage. It seems like they wouldn't even be Christians if they were wrong because they would hate to be around "this type of God". Frank gives a good outline of Romans, sure, but he also just ignores what the clear Scripture says and doesn't really answer what the passage is supposed to mean (even if it was meant to say not all Isreal is saved, that doesn't answer the fact that Paul speaks about how some are chosen before they did anything). It's not an honest and fair response in my opinion (maybe I'm missing context from the fuller video, if so, please let me know). Blessings!
@surfboy344 Says:
Frank, your videos disputing Calvinism need balance. Get Voddie Baucham or John MacArthur on and have a debate on those points. It's VERY telling that you avoid their theological points in FAVOR of Calvinism. There is scripture that supports both sides and I hear FAR BETTER sermons out of the Calvinist pastors than arminians. Are you afraid of debate Frank?
@reallifelegend4781 Says:
Why is it okay for God to hate his enemies in Hell, but not okay for him to hate his enemies here on the Earth?
@nothingbutthetruth613 Says:
If God really chose who was destined for salvation and who wasn't all in a random way not based on anyone's deeds or accomplishments, this god that is being portrayed would be nothing less than a psychopath and the epitome of evil. How do sane people believe this stuff?
@kalobrogers235 Says:
I'm distressed that a man like this of such knowledgeable experience can read romans 8 then romans 9 and not say God has predestined those who are saved. He literally uses the word predestined twice in romans 8 speaking of individuals and not nations. Before he even begins speaking of jews and gentiles. But even after he uses the vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy illustration he then mentions Pharoah, an individual that God raised up specifically to show his wrath. But let's say hypothetically you are correct that God only predestined nations, then the ultimate point of predestination still applies to individuals because by default he is choosing the individuals within the nation and leaving the others dammed that were not chosen because they were not in that nation. No matter which way you slice the pie God still chooses directly or indirectly those who will come to know him, according to his own divine will.
@4evaMobnJohn146 Says:
I enjoyed these two men. Hope to see them build again someday.
@jerrodlopes186 Says:
If you don't already understand the Bible for yourself, pray that the Holy Spirit guides you and stay away from videos like this one.
@jerrodlopes186 Says:
Hate has a very different meaning in ancient Hebrew contrasted against its meaning in modern English. Why don't we start there? That OT passage means that God had special purpose for Jacob, not that he reviled Essau. Once you understand that, Calvinism falls apart, which is why Calvinists stay away from the OT (except for the legalistic parts they relish in). They love Paul, but in reality, it is Saul that the Calvinist relates to. Now reexamine the parable of the clay vessels and the fine vessels in that light. Vessels are made to hold something. All human vessels are made to hold the Holy Spirit of God. Some of the finer ones are lifted up to inspire the others to be filled. God prefers those over the others because they are more fit for the task. He greatly PREFERS one over the others. That is the distinction between love and hate as it is rendered in the passage of Jacob and Essau.
@williamcrooksii9139 Says:
Think in Peter he said God wish none to perish.
@edgardelgado8753 Says:
Dr.Turek I just bought your book “I don’t have enough faith to be a atheist”, can wait to start reading it. But seriously get James white on here or even a formal debate would awesome instead of this guy who hates Calvinism
@CameronMast Says:
Notice how you didn’t actually engage with and answer the text. You can give the “general overview” and still completely miss crucial elements.
@donhaddix3770 Says:
Titus 2:11-14
New International Version
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good
@Ack5100 Says:
Adam knew what it was to be without sin... We don't. Did Adam run to God after he sinned? Nope. He hid. Who sought after him? God did. After Adam freely sinned he was in bondage to that sin and his heart was "wicked and deceitful above all things". He hid. He didn't choose God.
@LilacDaisy2 Says:
Do a real debate with a REAL Calvinist - a gentle one like Justin Peters, even.
@LilacDaisy2 Says:
Did Israel choose God, or did God choose Israel. “’Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”
Why would God be different with us!
@LilacDaisy2 Says:
So I (God) will devote them to destruction and make them an object of horror and contempt, an everlasting desolation. Jeremiah 25:9
You non-Cal's have got weird Bibles.
@LilacDaisy2 Says:
Behold, I (God) will stir up against them the Medes, who have no regard for silver and no desire for gold. Their bows will dash young men to pieces; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; they will not look with pity on the children. Isaiah 13:17
@richjames7595 Says:
I'm so happy this has happened God bless you two!
@lynnm.kleingardner8640 Says:
Was the question answered? Why did God hate Esau?
@steveprofiler Says:
God loves you so much they say. But not more than their own bible interpetation.
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