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'I think, therefore I am.' - René Descartes
What is reality? What is the nature of consciousness? How do we know that what we are experiencing is base reality and not a simulation?
These may seem like the kind of questions that you'd associate with modern concepts like The Matrix and simulation theory, but the fact is that every ancient philosophical tradition has wrestled with these problems in some form or another.
And with the advent of rich, complex VR worlds and the nascent metaverse, even more philosophers are turning toward these deep questions of consciousness and the human experience.
One of the most interesting thinkers in this space is David Chalmers, Professor of Philosophy and Neural Science at New York University, and co-director of the Center for Mind, Brain, and Consciousness.
In his latest book, Reality+: virtual worlds and the problems of philosophy, David investigates not only the nature of reality, but how we should conceptualize virtual reality, the idea that we can actually live a meaningful life in VR, how we know there's an external world, and much more.
We explore these topics and more in today's wide-ranging conversation, covering everything from the hard problem of consciousness to the probability that we're actually living in a computer simulation.
You don't have to be a student of philosophy to enjoy today's conversation - especially if you're as excited as I am about the possibilities being unlocked by virtual reality and the metaverse.
And if you want to dive deeper into David's work, you can order his new book, Reality+, by clicking here: https://amzn.to/3vMSS0v
SHOW NOTES:
00:00 | Introduction
01:41 | The Hard Problem of Consciousness
10:42 | Consciousness as a Fundamental Law of Nature
17:38 | The Foundations of Simulation Theory
27:33 | Is Reality Made of Information?
39:03 | How to Live a Meaningful Virtual Life
45:10 | The Philosopher's Zombie
51:59 | Orderable States of Consciousness
58:23 | Zhuangzi and the Butterfly
1:05:20 | The Experience Machine
1:14:40 | GPT3 and Deepfakes
1:19:08 | The Future of 'Technophilosophy'
QUOTES:
'How does the water of neural firings in the brain turn into the wine of consciousness?' [05:45]
'My view is what we have to do for consciousness is something akin to what Maxwell did for charge - treat consciousness as a fundamental property in nature and search for the fundamental laws that govern it.' [09:09]
'One of the basic questions in philosophy: Why is there something rather than nothing? Why is there anything in the universe? And it just looks like some things you have to take as fundamental properties and fundamental laws. And that's not wholly satisfying, but it kind of looks like it's the best we can do.' [32:39]
'I think the more we understand the connection between the brain and consciousness, the more capacities we're going to find for both manipulation and transformation of consciousness.' [51:48]
'I do want to think you can have… a meaningful life in VR, because what happens in VR is real - it's not scripted. It's not pre programmed. You can actually build your own life in VR.' [1:08:23]
'I think at a certain point, the avatar can begin to play… many of the roles of the physical body. It's as if you have two bodies, a physical body in the physical world, and a digital body in the digital world.' [1:24:02]
Follow David Chalmers:
Website: http://consc.net
Order a copy of David's new book, Technology+: https://amzn.to/3vMSS0v
In your opinion, what evidence proves/disproves the Simulation Theory?
@NavaidSyed Says:
Yes, you can get attached to anything and make it a source of misery for yourself.
@NavaidSyed Says:
We are a combination of origin, intent, and circumstances, anyway.
@NavaidSyed Says:
Being open to being manipulated is also a choice.
@NavaidSyed Says:
I want to know who I am.
@NavaidSyed Says:
Yes, we do not have any clue about the Cause. All we know is that there must be one.
@NavaidSyed Says:
The digital tree exists only on the interface when observed. Only bits exist.
@NavaidSyed Says:
Nassim Haramein has literally unified everything.
@NavaidSyed Says:
Information processing does not give rise to consciousness. It is far more fundamental. It makes information processing possible.
@NavaidSyed Says:
Currently, there is zero evidence that shows that the total of all digital inputs will feel like consciousness.
@NavaidSyed Says:
Consciousness is not computational. Consciousness is fundamental. Nothing exists unless you are a part of one consciousness that brought it about.
@nameless-yd6ko Says:
Is Reality REAL?
~~~ This is Reality as I see it;
1) All that exists is One Consciousness/Mind ('God' if you like...).
Beyond this not anything else exists.
2) We are all unique momentary Perspectives (Souls) comprising the One Consciousness.
3) That which we, collectively, 'perceive/reflect' (are Conscious of) is Mind/Memory/concepts (the little bit before us at the moment).
"God cannot know himself but by me!" - Meister Eckhart
'Consciousness' is that which perceives.
'Knowledge' is that which is perceived.
All that Exists is perceived, all that is perceived exists.
Existence is, thus, all-inclusive.
If Reality is predicated on Existence, then Reality is all inclusive!
If Truth is predicated on Reality, then Truth is ALL INCLUSIVE!
Knowledge is Truth, all-inclusive!
@todd4956 Says:
Jesus Christ loves you David. But until you comprehend the Reformed Metaphysics of Collingwood you have no true comphensision of Reality.. just my opinion.
@davem6328 Says:
Great conversation, Tom asks the very questions. to get David to expand on the subject.
@suncat9 Says:
I have the grand unified theory that combines the known laws of physics with consciousness. It was known by the father of quantum mechanics, Max Planck, when he stated the following: "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness." Consciousness is FUNDAMENTAL. As Max Planck states, everything derives from consciousness.
@AwnSight Says:
I’ll tell u exactly how we figure it out.need to invasily study and test babies in womb and as it grows older
@RandallWagoner Says:
Consciousness is fundamental and OUTSIDE of space-time. The sooner that is accepted by more scientists the faster a viable theory can be produced. For a far better explanation (theory), check out the work of Dr Donald Hoffman. He and his team are on the cutting-edge of this particular science.
@lukon100 Says:
I want that Kandinsky-ish painting on Chalmers' stack of books.
@themetalprincess Says:
if you introduce simulation theory into the equation, and think of it as a sort of program "compiler" of all of the various laws of the universe, you could suddenly explain virtually everything in life that is hard to understand or believe relatively easily. The variables of our life could just be code, and the program execution could end up being the "grand unyifing theory" a sort of executable program of the specific code paramaters in the simulation that bring everything together and manifest consciouness. The master code writer ends up being "God" the creator, and our life expierence ends up being the net results of the specific code parameters. Which we would then percieve thru our thoughts as "reality".
@mickcrovo5238 Says:
I had a 3-year relationship with a woman who, a week after telling me she adored me and that we had an amazing connection, ghosted me and ran off with another guy. That's how I came to understand narcissists. If you've ever been through something like that, VR doesn't scare you anymore. Finding out that what you thought was real was actually faked can happen in the "real" world.
@mickcrovo5238 Says:
The assumption that there is something rather than nothing is not quite right. There can be something and nothing simultaneously at the same time and place. It's like Shrodinger's cat but with only one observable state. We observe the something by chance, and the nothingness is not observable anyway, so here we are.
@ivanbeshkov1718 Says:
Why wasn't my identical twin born instead of me? What is this me, this self? I never existed and will never exist again, so why now? After I cease to exist, it will be as if I had never existed.
@trevorloughlin1492 Says:
I am very busy looking for the reset button.
@richardarcher3435 Says:
Why can't consciousness just be data? The storing and manipulation of data. When I think about what I am experiencing as consciousness it all comes down to data, everything, it's all data. You can even swap the two words 'consciousness' and 'data' in a sentence and it still means the same. I think consciousness is often mixed up with awareness of your surroundings and yourself. If you do not have awareness of yourself and your surroundings (like a laptop doesn't), then you are not conscious. I don't see that. Self awareness and awareness of your surroundings is just extra data, it's just a higher form of consciousness. I think we need to try to understand what it is like to BE something when it comes to consciousness. THIS (what we are all experiencing) is what it is like to BE a working human brain .... and I don't mean this is what it is like to be something else experiencing what it is like to be a human brain. There's not two of us, only one, just the brain, this is what it is like to BE a working human brain.
@brendanfairfield6448 Says:
Hi I believe we are in a simulation created by advanced alien species to destroy all humans and other species and to prove we are not smart and we are weaklings. Earth was attacked by AI and Aliens before I was born as an enlightened person called the North American Budda.
@tupacalypse88 Says:
If Universes can end and the original does through some process end does that kill all simulations instantaneously.
@kamilfrompoland7 Says:
Man is not only matter, it takes spirit to observe something like consciousness. God first formed the human body and then put the spirit into it, the result of this union was a living being.
And the Lord God formed the man (i.e., Adam's body) from the dust of the ground, then blew into his nostrils the life-giving breath (i.e., his spirit), and [thus] the man became a living person. Genesis 2:7
@kamilfrompoland7 Says:
Even if the graphics became so realistic that they were indistinguishable from the real world, still such a game would be run on some device that would be located in our reality, it would not be the creation of a new world. Behind the device screen, the world would remain the same no matter how much the graphics would improve. God created the world and placed man on earth to seek and find God. This life is a test.
He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. Acts 17:26-27
@Studio-pg4sq Says:
My reality says that I AM. Who can say that I AM NOT?
@kevinkerns4154 Says:
Love the Metaverse
@chickensandw1tch Says:
28:25 Neo, exactly what is real? BD
31:00 askin the real questions!
@PetraKann Says:
Consciousness may well be an emotion or complex or enhanced sensation.
It may well be that consciousness is not that special or outside the realm of non-subjective awareness
@user-ye6hw5hw2i Says:
No one talks about psycadelics that's the only.reason, i can't find answers to why this life is real, it all seems fake
@user-pq6mr6op3p Says:
What a stoopid podcast...
@tunahelpa5433 Says:
This is EXACTLY like me having a conversation with the great mind! Thank you
@matttrafton2725 Says:
Outside the simulation we are long lived or immortal. Only a finite existence would get one through the centuries. Most 'people', the stereotypes, are A.I. generated NPCs to fill out simulations.
@AtlantaTrucker Says:
I been wondering this myself. i keep my thoughts to myself
@riveratrackrunner Says:
if the virtual reality is caled stem i am not going in.
@slic_papa2671 Says:
A simulation does NOT need to be 'indistinguishable from 'reality'' in order for our brains to buy into the authenticity of virtual stimuli. If you take a grainy 'photo' of a sunset, or your mother, or a bowl of cereal and encode it such that it matches the brainwaves for the 'reality' version of the same then your brain WILL accept and identify and identify with the stimuli provided as if it was not only real, but 'hi definition' as well even if it is the bare minimum quality to do so.
We have the technology to produce this 'acceptable' version of virtual reality now. We've already proven this. I believe we are living in a simulation, however, I am certain that we live in a multi-verse - that is, I know we are.
My question now is am I the only one here. Is this a dream of mine. Am I dead and this is an 'in-body' OBE. I am almost certain that there is a true reality outside of this existence. That may be heaven, but I believe heaven can be found here, so if we find heaven here do we awake in the real 'world'?
Whatever the ultimate reality is, I know we live this life over and over again, or at least I do.
To refute the virtual world is a real world argument that this guy is making, I have to cry BS. If this is a simulation then nothing here is truly real - nothing. Even most of our thoughts would then be simulated which would explain why we can't control our thoughts. But if this is the case, then there are only a few possible reasons for it. Either we are a source of entertainment, we are prisoners of a malevolent being, or our own race has us in here for the purpose of evolution.
@Publius13 Says:
*This whole business about living in a simulation is ridiculous in the extreme!* It’s just the latest iteration of “Zeno’s Paradox” _(which is: you can’t really go anywhere because to get somewhere you must first go half the distance, then half the distance again, ad infinitum)._ The Simulation “hypothesis” is even worse than that! It’s so weak that I can put it to bed in one blow: *If this is all just a simulation, what is it simulating?* Simulators generate simulations which, by definition, are similar to something else. Therefore, the simulation unnecessary.
@treasurepoem Says:
25:04 - 26:00 Correct, we don't live in a simulation. The bible tells us what our consciousness is, it's when our body and God's spirit are joined together which creates our soul (consciousness). Our brain is but a filter that REDUCES our intelligence, perception, imagination etc., just like it does to other living animals which have an even stronger or different filter.
36:19 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Isaiah 46:10
King James Version
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
1 Corinthians 2:9
King James Version
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
---------
1:17:03 We have no free will.
John 15:5
King James Version
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
1:24:04 Those type of emotional feelings seem to be just like the emotional rage that occurs to some during a road rage incident, when their perceived boundaries are violated.
@TimEngle Says:
Science is still wide open. We are too stupid to realize it.
@darkpoetry7771 Says:
If we are in a simulation we must first prove that conscienceness can arrive from data. otherwise conscienceness is our proof of a god head of sorts.
@darkpoetry7771 Says:
We are all one god head who has been divided into every thing and everyone living out every life all at once to gain the totality of wizdom from every lived experience. One of us learns and lives a musicians life while another is a physicist. When everything has been learned we all die and the god head awakens as a wize creator. Everything is fractal and a reflection of self. We will eventually solve all problems and cure every disease. However we are not there yet. Recognize that your ideas and thought arrive often from elsewhere . This is a hint that we are all one. these ideas and thoughts are experiences of others which we think are original but are evidence of the being we all are apart of. Remember we are made in gods image as some of us have been told and also notice how everything is accellerating. Try and love yourself as well as others and not envy the lives of other because after all every path leads to the same truth when journeyed far enough.
@TheFrenchNanny Says:
Toxoplasmosis !!! I have it
@aroemaliuged4776 Says:
Maybe 1000 years… the progress of vr is slowing
Look at games 20 years ago
Not much progress
@scottrygg6275 Says:
You live in a simulation now
@anyariv Says:
Maybe consciousness is the will, beyond automatic subconscious evolution driven biology, of which the sole purpose is to survive and reproduce, perhaps it’s the “will” that interacts and affects the outside world, molds it, sculpts it, creates it, and enjoys it. The will can only come from a sense of “I”, and the others, the outside world. A will to persist, to engage, to fight on despite all set backs, to love unconditionally, to express oneself. The will is consciousness. The will is God.
@anyariv Says:
I should have been a philosopher, I’ve thought about every single thing that talked about exactly how Chalmers describes it.
Also I’m really surprised neither one of them mentioned the movie Total Recall. They mention the matrix and Truman show, but Total Recall was exactly about being implanted into virtual world and fake memories and fake wife who you thought you loved.
@shawngates953 Says:
I always believed we are way more than our consciousness.
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