If we have all this wonderful evidence of design in life (think DNA and butterflies), then what about the stuff that's not so 'nice' (think bacteria and viruses) that also looks designed but is harmful to humans? Dr. Stephen A. Meyer directs Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture in Seattle. In this video, he talks about those aspects of nature (natural evil) that call into question God's goodness and answers the dilemma � How can we reconcile these BAD designs with a GOOD God? Be sure to check it out, and then watch the rest of this fascinating episode of the HOPE One Live Show!
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@copernicus99 Says:
Satan makes mutations (corruption) in DNA. Therefore, Man evolved from a primordial ancestor due to the work of Satan, not God.
@copernicus99 Says:
We can't exist underwater (2/3 of the Earth is water) or in outer space, where we would suffocate or die due to radiation exposure. Is this what we would expect from an intelligent designer?
@salvadoralvarado8685 Says:
so, one of the leading names in the ID community is saying that evolution through natural selection is a FACT in bacteria, so why not in the rest of living organisms, including humans?
@frankhuggins9733 Says:
Virulent organisms are an impetus to research and investigate.
@kurtgundy Says:
The answer to this is so simple the brainiacs are missing it. The harmful bacteria is a result of the fall. Your welcome.
@viravirakti Says:
1:50 Good point, but then we have to explain when exactly the fall of man took place and the decay appeared in the world, especially within a theistic-evolutionary framework (intelligent design), considering the fact that decay, disease, suffering, violence, predators, conflict existed before the human species was designed and evolved into existence. Unless, of course, we limit this problem to the human species and say that humans alone were not (supposed to be) affected by decay, which happened only after the fall, after our spiritual death, that is our separation from God, when we were also allowed to eat animals (after the flood, more precisely), unlike the command in Genesis 1.29. And there is no paleonthological evidence that there was any sudden appearance of predators or carnivorous species at a certain point in time (after the fall of man), but, by the contrary, the evidence shows that those species existed tens of millions or years before the human hystory.
So, this could be an answer, that only the human species was designed not to experience decay and suffering, but this again rises the problem of humans living in, and being aware of, a suffering word. But maybe then we were seeing and understanding the world from a different perspective than the one from which we see it now, in a fallen, corrupted or limited state.
Or, a different answer would be that God designed from the beginning this world which contains certain amounts of decay and suffering, because he had forseen that humans, the crown of creation, would make the wrong choice and fall, and so this is the world we're supposed to live in, fitted to our nature and useful for our redemption and salvation, because suffering shows us precisely our separation from God, and it has and is used by God for a good purpose, for a greater and ultimate good (which is not this passing life), to humble ourselves, to lead us to repentance, to make us aware of our miserable and limited condition, and to make us aware of, and desire, what we've lost: God, the true and eternal life.
@DrewTrox Says:
@4:48 You failed to mention what drives mutation selection in the Theory of Evolution. You say mutations drive their own selection. It is in fact the environment they find themselves in that is the decider. In general you misspeak about the causes and process of gene mutation.
@MrFossil367ab45gfyth Says:
Good explanation Meyer.
But bacteria are just bacteria, they aren't evil. When germs infect someone, they infect someone.
@theTavis01 Says:
There is nothing even remotely biblical or scientific about this nonsense. Since you people refuse to read the actual scientific literature, I'll stuck to Bible verses. Meyer claims that so-called "natural evil" like bacteria are man's fault, as if we have the power to affect the natural world in that way! Here's what the Bible says in Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Meyer is suggesting that these harmful-to-human bacteria are NOT part of God's design, as if the whole thing is out of His control and He's not sovereign! What blasphemy!! Even IF God made the plague to punish us for sins, it is STILL God in control. Always in control. Only heretics want to remove God from His Sovereign Glory. Jeremiah 11:11 "Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them."
Meyer then claims that we should ONLY expect to see decay, as if he is blind to the fact that spring followed fall every single year of his life. The Bible tells us this directly, that God SUSTAINS His creations. "Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee." Nehemiah 9:6
Meyer then AFFIRMS that indeed mutations show God's creativity "if" evolution were true, but then he has the absolute gall to say that this is nothing but decay??? God's mighty creativity is nothing but rotten trash to the great prophet Stephen Meyer! I said I wouldn't quote science, but this is just ridiculous. Multiple beneficial mutations have been rigorously documented at this point. There's no excuse for this. In a paper titled "Adaptive Evolution within Gut Microbiomes of Healthy People" they quite clearly state: "This history reveals multiple signatures of within-person adaptation, including parallel evolution in sixteen gene... Here, we report multiple lines of evidence that these sublineages acquire de novo mutations with significant beneficial effects" Glory to God! And shame to Stephen Meyer!
3:27 I'm sorry, the plague what? You seem to be having trouble saying that common word, Stephen. Is everything ok?
@AlbertoTaure Says:
Decay = Entropy
@hanshammerhand9854 Says:
Well, still this doesn't help the problem in any actual way.
Bacteria, viruses and cancer exists, fact. If intillegent design is true, those are either a mistake, I doubt thats something christians would agree on, or the possiblitly for it is purposly integreted in his "creation".
So, even if the plague developed from an harmless bacteria, this doesn't change anything at all. Even if those things come from mutation, it doesn't change that it is possible, it doesn't change that this possibillity had to be designed.
If we are actually the "creation" and God made everything, he made mutation, he made bacteria, he made viruses, he made cancer, he is the only one responsible. Futher that is only a few examples, storms, earthquakes, vulkanos, floods, asteroids, gamma-rays and other natural phenomenons are hard to explain with random mutation or decay XD.
So, this isn't a good explaination for anything at all by any means.
@LatinPole Says:
A deadly bacteria doesn't make God evil, it's just part of creation we don't fully understand with our great buy limited intelligence, there are beings in creation that can be harmful to humans. A lion can also kill us but nobody is complaining that God is evil because of allowing lions to exist. I believe God makes mortal because his plan isn't for us to live forever in this world. We need to understand that our bodies aren't immune to everything around us.
@thebottomline9250 Says:
Does anyone realize that their explanation for disease is evolution? So now Christians have to use evolution to keep their faith relevant.
@derekspitz9225 Says:
There is no creator being. Full stop. Deal with it. smh
@25_September Says:
Jesus Christ saved my life. Amen.
@rontommy50 Says:
Thankyou for this. It makes perfect sense. I love Romans 8:21. I am encouraged.
@savedbymylovegodthelordjes8394 Says:
praise the only true living LORD and GOD bless you all glory be to the HOLY TRINITY forever and ever amen 💖✝️✝️✝️
@newcreationinchrist1423 Says:
03:00 great explanation guys! Thank you!
@Steven-ki9sk Says:
It’s amazing how scientifically ignorant these guys are. If they ever opened a introductory textbook on palaeontology, they would know that loads of fossils have been found that shows that harmful bacterial infections are far older than the human race. Not just harmful infectious diseases, but deficiency diseases, hereditary diseases (including both genetic diseases and non-genetic hereditary diseases), and physiological diseases too
@ryeclansen7371 Says:
So the intelligent designer allowed the world to decay so bad that black plagues and bubonic plagues swept over Europe over the centuries and at times killed one third of the population, and in Africa and tropical countries Malaria and all kinds of other diseases have ravaged the populations throughout history, and when the Europeans came to the Americas 95% of the natives were wiped out by diseases the Europeans brought. Why? All because the ID set a trap for Adam and Eve in the garden. And the ID cursed Eve and her descendants so that one of the main causes for death of women through the millennia was young women dying in childbirth. How anyone can think their biblical interpretation is an improvement on ID is absolutely mind blowing! If this were true, the total cruelty and irresponsibility of this kind of designer god is beyond all evil !!!!
@SDsc0rch Says:
fascinating
@fantasticbeast9962 Says:
It doesn’t. End of story.
@youhavebeenfailingforhowlo1521 Says:
As an atheist I find it interesting to see such views.
@JamesRichardWiley Says:
Deadly bacteria causes enormous suffering in little children. God knows this but he won't make the necessary changes in his design.
Stephen thinks this is justified because his belief in a god cannot be wrong.
@YTMegiddo Says:
Notice Stephen's face didn't get better looking from digital failures... same with our digital code. Kinda off topic, I know. Great video guys.
@suzanneflowers2230 Says:
Our sin corrupted God's beautiful creation. Sin has terrible consequences in every way.
@MrTheclevercat Says:
Why doesn't the universe appear to be intelligently designed to people who actually study the universe and not mythology?
@somerandom3247 Says:
Because anything can be explained when you stop looking for the actual answer and just claim it was magic.
God isn't a valid hypothesis, it's a cop out used when you decide to stop thinking.
@fordman7479 Says:
Simple God told Adam he would surely die, now we die and something has to get us there.
@guitarplyr327 Says:
So gods “perfect design” is throwing us on a lonely planet in the middle of the galaxy that is intent on killing us? 👍
@Matthew24.4 Says:
No virus has ever been isolated. You may as well be talking about unicorns.
Bacteria have been isolated aka they exist, unlike a virus.
Terrain theory explains why we get sick. Germ theory (viruses) is pseudoscience.
@coolnegative Says:
As I understand it.......science can not explain why over time our cells go from being reproduced healthy to slowly over time becoming reproduced flawed and at a slower rate......and this is the essence of why living tissue/organisms die. If not for this single flaw, we would essentially be 'immortal.' Also, that through experimentation with stem cell lattice from swine ears has shown that if we had a different mechanism than clotting to stop valuable fluids, human appendages would actually regenerate and regrow exact copies of the lost member......to me personally......this ALL speaks to a biological engineer AND evidence of something going "wrong"......aka sin entering into our bodies. I am curious as to whether or not these are things that will be "corrected" in our "glorified" bodies, harkening back to first Adam before the fall........or will there be an entire new biological design, and when in the future will we be in spirit form only.....or will we?
@seeqr9 Says:
Most bacteria and viruses aren’t deadly to humans and the ones that are usually are only so when there’s an underlying imbalance that allows them to run wild.
@followerofchrist2627 Says:
We live in a fallen world
We must trust in Jesus
@markhorton3994 Says:
People are commenting as if not living forever is bad design. Not so. After the fall of Adam and Eve everyone dies to make room for someone else. The Earth is not going to last forever either, it will be replaced. The quality of design can only be judged by its intended purpose.
@Happyxcamper Says:
There is a group of people mentioned in Ezekiel that save the lives of those who should not have lived, & end the lives of those who should not have died. What if diseases were a way for natural filtration to occur, based on what we choose to do with our bodies? What if death isn't the end, & we're just so afraid of the unknown that we're willing to give up all freedom to be enslaved to death, even though it has no power over us anymore. Jesus took care of that.
@Mr_Weather860 Says:
This entire premise, every bit of it, hinges on the belief that if God exists then God would have only created everything good and perfect. This is the same crackerjacks mentality that believes one can be truly happy in life by just getting everything they want. The truth is if one has everything they desire, they still want more. They get bored and continually seek adventure and new ways to occupy themselves. Without challenge and difficulties in life we become stagnant and bored. Imagine for a minute what life would be like without viruses and bacteria? Without health problems? Everyone living as long as they wanted? Incredible that the same scientists who know the problems this would present are also the first to condemn God as being nonexistent simply because of the existence of the very things that prevent these problems. It's irrational circular logic.
@hansdemos6510 Says:
This is really impossible to understand. The fact that some bacteria populations become more successful after a mutation that happens to make them more harmful to humans is a clear example of evolution at work.
If Dr. Meyer were right, and this would be an expression of "decay" or of some original "good" design going awry, then in general we would expect this "decay" to be harmful to the bacteria themselves in the first place and only as a side effect to humans. This is in no way what we observe. We observe that natural selection makes mutations that are a net benefit for the bacteria spread through the population of bacteria, while mutations that are a net disadvantage for the bacteria are reduced and sometimes completely disappear from the population of bacteria. This is called "evolution" in accordance with its definition.
Please also note that Dr. Meyer admits at around 3:29 : _"The plague _*_evolved_*_ from a very harmless bacterium that erm... for which we have a natural immune response..."_ (my emphasis)
I am sure Dr. Meyer's intellectual grandparents would vehemently disagree with him that anything ever _"evolved."_ But this has been the common development of fundamentalist Christian apologetics since the scientific method got started in the Renaissance; step by step they have needed to retreat as the evidence for biological evolution and other scientific concepts that are incompatible with a literalist interpretation of Scripture has grown stronger and stronger. And the end of their retreat is nowhere in sight.
@richardredmond1463 Says:
ID is a piece of the jigsaw, because God is the Designer. Meyer accepts a 13.8 billion year age for the universe, but then oddly rules out macro-evolution for what seems to be solely theological reasons. Some sort of theistic evolutionary model however appears to me to be the most coherent one.
@brucewayne9831 Says:
A really simple analogy: A wooden chair in my house, the wood from the same chair that supports me can be moulded into an arrow that could go through my heart, it actually isn’t all that complicated to rationalise for yourself something being good at one stage and then being not so good at another without the moral uprightness of the person who originally designed my chair ever coming into question.
@cygnusustus Says:
Intelligent Design explains nothing.
They Theory Of Evolution fully explains the presence of bacteria.
@cygnusustus Says:
Always amusing to watch apologists pretend to understand science.
@kinggenius930 Says:
The hoops they have to jump through to try and justify their unscientific position
@cygnusustus Says:
Nope. Nothing in the Bible, or creationism, indicates that we should expect to see decay of design.
And (shocker!), we don't. So Meyer really does a self-own here.
Just Creationists making up nonsense, and lying about their scriptures, once again.
@arnekronvall817 Says:
Everything comes at a cost, but there is just cost. Who knows how things will truly end? Results are illusions, better to focus on process rather than result.
@newcreationinchrist1423 Says:
Sin affects us physically even now. Causes us to often age faster and can even make us sick. I don't see any reason why in the beginning sin could not have affected our anatomy.
@joehellno9097 Says:
And of course the never decaying God allows for the decay of everything else. That’s fair and logical, at least for everything in material existence, right? Thank God spirit and souls don’t decay. Or do they? Well I’m sure Turek would stand up for the free will of the bacteria and anything else that causes decay. But who created and allows the negative growth, or negative evolution of all manifest creation. The creator. Does that suggest a paradox to you? On the other hand: How do we know God him/itself does not decay? We’ve only got his word for it, really. What if this God decay is the cause of all these inconsistencies, contradictions, and horrible, nasty, dare I say…evil…elements of a reality created and allowed to continue by a God who is in some stage of divine Alzheimer’s? Now there’s an angle on the problem of evil no apologist has considered. Oh, and it would account for bacteria and other bugs all the way down to sub atomic particle breakdown. The world, and the rest of the universe as well, may be winding down because the first cause evolved into the next room and forgot why he went in there in the first place. Thermodynamics explained by the natural absent mindedness of even the first and biggest mind? We must pray on this. When God gets back to us on the matter, can the first ones who get the message post it here? We all thank you in advance.
@technoforever888 Says:
Who decides that bacteria that is harmful is bad in a sinful world?
@thelastlaughsamael4669 Says:
What a junk of response, trying to square it with the bible when the bible doesn't say anything about bacteria, because the author's crearly didn't knew about it, that shows why the bible isn't divine, otherwise we'll have a completely different book. If you blame humans for everything that went wrong when in fact God was in command and didn't even try to correct at least something, then that's evidence that he didn't care for all of us, because when you love someone, you take care of him.
It's like a father who takes responsibility for his three year old son, the son ended up burning the house and the father blame the child for not doing what he has commanded the child to do, instead of stopping the child from burning the house, when he was the one in charge, the boy didn't knew better so he's not the one to blame for the mess, same here.
You biblical christians try to make reasonable the unreasonable in order to assert with more confidence what you want to believe, because it makes you feel right not because it's actually true, I truly feel pitty.
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