Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: https://utm.io/ueSXh
Matthieu Pageau and Dr. Jordan B. Peterson discuss the meaning of mythos. They draw parallels to the Bible as they discuss Adam and Eve, how their story relates to psychology, and its parallels to modern human behavior.
Matthieu Pageau is a Canadian author living in Quebec. For over a decade he's taken part in discussions regarding religious philosophy and symbolism with his brother and icon carver Jonathan Pageau. This led him to write his first novel: 'The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism: A Commentary'
—Links—
For Matthieu Pageu
(Book) The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism: A Commentary
https://www.amazon.com/Language-Creation-Symbolism-Genesis-Commentary/dp/1981549331
—Chapters—
(0:00) Coming Up
(0:53) Intro
(3:44) Logos: a Top Down System
(11:41) Heaven, Earth, Order, Chaos
(16:20) Union of Meaning and Fact
(22:00) Adam and Eve, Opposites by Design
(29:00) The Talking Snake
(35:00) Newton V. Einstein
(40:25) Something Above the Head
(47:04) Inedible Fruit, Totalitarian Sin
(54:19) The Nature of Sin, Fractal Patterns
(1:02:10) Tetramorphic Cherubs
(1:12:00) The Flaming Sword That Turns on Itself
(1:17:13) The Adversary That Loves You
(1:27:25) Pageau's Process for Writing
(1:30:30) The Principle of Recursion
(1:40:58) Not All Interpretation is Arbitrary
(1:48:14) The Cycle of Competition
(1:59:47) Jacob and Wrestling the Angel.
(2:02:48) Why Pageau Avoided Academia While Writing
(2:04:37) Women Tend to be Hypergamous
// SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL //
Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/jordanbpeterson.com/youtubesignup
Donations: https://jordanbpeterson.com/donate
// COURSES //
Discovering Personality: https://jordanbpeterson.com/personality
Self Authoring Suite: https://selfauthoring.com
Understand Myself (personality test): https://understandmyself.com
// BOOKS //
Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life: https://jordanbpeterson.com/Beyond-Order
12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: https://jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-for-life
Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief: https://jordanbpeterson.com/maps-of-meaning
// LINKS //
Website: https://jordanbpeterson.com
Events: https://jordanbpeterson.com/events
Blog: https://jordanbpeterson.com/blog
Podcast: https://jordanbpeterson.com/podcast
// SOCIAL //
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson
Instagram: https://instagram.com/jordan.b.peterson
Facebook: https://facebook.com/drjordanpeterson
Telegram: https://t.me/DrJordanPeterson
All socials: https://linktr.ee/drjordanbpeterson
#JordanPeterson #JordanBPeterson #DrJordanPeterson #DrJordanBPeterson #DailyWirePlus #Psychology #GardenofEden #Matthieupageau #pageau #adamandeve #podcast
THAT GHOST IN MATTIEUS SHOULDER AT 58:53 CASTS A SHADOW IN THE COURTAIN
@JudyKrause-j3n Says:
DITTO 😎
@gtrpryde Says:
I'm reading this for book club and found this conversation quite illuminating, what brilliant conversation from these titans of knowledge. Thank you both 🙏
@Mr_M1dnight Says:
What a schizeau
@tomskene9025 Says:
3 years late to this one. I see my 2006 self in Mathieu. If you and Jonathan want a brother chat 2 v 2 someday let me know. It’d be fun.
My real critique:
Fullness and void. Those are the words. You weren’t comfortable with JP using chaos and order for a reason
@timothyn4699 Says:
the current Left is delusional, and is listening to evil/enemy/serpent
the ideal left is creative and, carefully, pushes boundaries. Compassionate but also needs to be realistic. You can't give free ponies to everyone if they don't exist, if you don't have them
you may want to support the vulnerable, but you need to do so practically, and sustainably. But also you need to be discerning. Not everyone who cries victim or for help, is actually in need of help (conmen, scammers, liars, enemies in disguise). And giving away free stuff isn't even the best way to help those who are even legitimately in need. The better way is to teach ppl how to fish, not just give them a fish
the right is far more traditional, practical. Why fix something that isn't broken, and has worked for hundreds or thousands of years. There is validly in it. But can be prone to greed, or being too conservative, or not trying new things.
ideally both come together. Ideally both need to seek truth though. Seek what God's says.
Helping ppl is good, but how best to do that is also a factor. And again, making sure you're helping the right ppl (giving a conman money is not good and wasteful, we should all be able to agree with that). Because resources are limited. Working with tried and true is good, and stable, but there can be better ways to do things. Ideal is seek that out, and also grow to help others, not just yourself. Trying new things can be good, but not completely forsaking wisdom of your elders. Just bc it's different doesn't mean it's good. There are worse ways to do things. And if you aren't careful, you can destroy good things.
helping ppl is not good if it enables addiction, or enables laziness. Best way to help ppl isn't to give them free stuff, leaving hem unlearned and forever dependent/ a child to you. Best way is help them grow and become your peer or exceed you. Also most sustainable, if you can manage it. Takes more effort and time
@justinluther2924 Says:
Possibly the only interview where Matthieu isn't walking around outside
@sircrackboi Says:
Top 3 brothers of all time:
Super Mario brothers
Warner brothers
Pageau brothers
@mckontext Says:
48:11 God prohibited Adam and Eve from consuming anything from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not just this specific fruit. Other than that, great analysis and interpretation as usual, Doctor.
@chriswalth Says:
2:07:09 On the matter of how the feminin can support the masculine, check out the work of David Deida. He did an incredible job for decades on this issue.
@jay1311-f7p Says:
Thinks I'm bluffing i told you I would pick the bad apples out one by one save the best till last he's a wrong one earning money of destroying someone's mental health and health in general I've got the full movie ready to release I forgive u all but never him 16:33
@mshawnee Says:
Dude was stumped..."power?"...err good curse blah blah blah blah. So perverse.
@rosalba3701 Says:
2:03:18 Actually, in the Christian tradition, one should never pick their own "monsters" to battle, but instead allow God to pick for us. We humans, as mentioned earlier in this conversation, have eyes bigger than our stomachs and always bite more than we can chew. God gives us each a cross/enemy tailored fit to size. And then when we pray to carry our crosses or fight our "enemies," He gives us the grace to carry on and move forward for our personal growth.
@NA-ni9fc Says:
Thank you for your book The Language of Creation Matthew! Thank you Jordan for all the work you have done to help others! God bless you both! Amen.
@UFOzNoJoke1 Says:
Jordan, If you should get this message. Listening to the discussion of Adam and Eve in how Eve speaks to the animals and gives Adam the more encompassing persective of the animals and all that is life beyond his perspective. This story intrigues me to wonder what the Islamic relations there would be between the biblical story and how the quran would explain the base model of naming each animal and how those names have consistently traveled with the people unwaivering through time.
I hope this comes to make sense to you. It's interesting and if you could sneak this into a future talk it would be inspiring.
Thank You!!
@deescherer8673 Says:
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@joegoicoechea33 Says:
TYSM Dr. PETERSON
"The Carney’s Trinitarian Triptych: A Spheral Rhapsody"
(With a grace of ebb and flow, echoing Hopkins’ sprung rhythm, Coleridge’s stream, and the spheres’ celestial measure)
I. Mundane: The Wheel’s Groan
Setup, Perform, Teardown—O! Carnal Spheres!
From folded canvas, carney’s labor stirs—
Setup: Ropes tighten, tents rise, a caged beast sighs.
The gunas hum—tamas (stillness), rajas (strain), sattva (soft call)—
Three earthly breaths, where grime and snag reside.
The farmer casts, the monk his threshold sweeps,
The carney hammers down in dewy clay.
Threefold the maya-wheel, its turning deep:
Prepare, Engage, Release—the triune way.
O spiral, spiral, mortal coil unwinds!
Each knot a shadowed tie, each driven nail a sound.
The river stirs, the dragon’s form implied—
Yet in the dust, a lotus seeks the unbound.
II. Profane: The Serpent’s Jest
Snake Oil, Silver Tongues, and Shadowed Jest
Now Profane Triad coils: Desire, Grasp, Fire!
The huckster’s lure, the Yakuza’s keen edge,
The cleric bartering celestial hire.
Three masks, one shadow—kama, artha, dreams’ sad pledge.
The carney’s bottle spins, a gleam, a lie—
“Cure-all! Balm! For every mortal smart!”
The gaze of crowds, where eager coins will fly,
While Shiva smiles, a knowing third-eye dart.
O whirl, O whirl, the carnival’s brief bright show!
A dragon’s whisper, jest in fading light.
The river darkens, where the broken flow,
Yet in its depths, the moon still charts the night.
III. Sacred: The Lotus Blossoms
Trimurti, Triple Gem, and Sakura’s Breath
Then Sacred Triads bloom—Brahma’s first chime,
Christ’s Word-Spirit-Father, Buddha’s Threefold Shine.
The carney stills, as lanterns softly climb,
While tightropes sing a grace beyond design.
A child’s breath catches at the tiger’s stare;
The monk, in silence, meets the boundless air.
Three petals drift—Sat-Chit-Ananda’s prayer—
As Sakura sighs, All moments disappear.
O soar, O soar, the spire’s reaching, silent grace!
The river deepens, carving slow its bed.
Three stars ignite—Osiris, Mithra, sacred space—
Their trident cleaves the darkness overhead.
IV. Transcendent: The Sea’s Embrace
Nirvana’s Tide, Carnival’s Vanishing Act
Transcendent Triad breathes—Impermanence, Sorrow, No-Self’s vast call—
The carney folds his dreams, the canvas falls.
No stage remains, no gain, no holy thrall—
Just wind in fields, just evening’s rose-gold walls.
The Sakura falls, a bride to ocean’s keep;
The river yields to starlit, boundless main.
Three echoes fade—Setup, Perform, Release sleep—
As carneys, gods, and fools find sweet refrain.
O merge, O merge, the spheres’ soft, final hum!
The dragon’s tail, now cosmic dust become.
All triads bow where tide and moonlight gleam—
One breath, one flow, the All in Three, the Three in All supreme.
Coda: The Spheral Jest
(A Hopkins-esque curtal sonnet, with softened edges)
Beneath the falling bloom, the carney’s rest—
Three forms (Trimurti, Gem, the carny’s jest),
Three worlds (Mundane, Profane, where sacred’s blessed),
Three truths (Loss, Emptiness, the stars’ behest).
The spheres now murmur in rhythms gently swayed—
A Coleridgean current, Hopkins’ light cascade.
All trinities return where all were made:
The jest endures—the Three in One, unstayed.
Key Changes and Why:
* Softer Verbs and Imagery: Replacing some of the sharper, more abrupt words with gentler alternatives ("grind begins" to "labor stirs," "ropes taut" to "ropes tighten").
@alias84036 Says:
My opinion in so many words. The Adam and Eve story is (serpent/Lilith first wife) =grandiose, (Eve/ second wife)= covert. Adam didn't need Eve talking with the first wife. Reasons we can assume. Knowledge can be evil
@thtsMissus2u Says:
4:16 that is possible because it is written figuratively, poetically, and literally. Only God can do that.
@jashbaug Says:
The simplicity, purity, and power of the Word is being confused by the fractal thoughts of the fallen mind. Fun mental play.
In the beginning (time) God (force) created (action) the heavens (space) and the earth (matter). simple and profound.
@ediz214 Says:
Honestly, this was absolutely fascinating. The clarity and depth of insight here is nothing short of a service to all humankind. Thank you both for dedicating your time—our most precious resource—to unearthing and sharing this wisdom with the world.
@doctord9029 Says:
Sweetness to my ears 🌿😍☝️🙏
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
To my adresss 3629 seven hills rd Castro vallley California
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
The police came twice last night
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
I have a toy gun
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
I
Locked In my room on drugs
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
I am in trouble
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
Eden hospital and Jack Bottorf and Stacy hearshi are picking up my husband
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
My husband is in coma at Eden
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
I called 911 twice last to my address 3629 sevenhill recast valley😊
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
Anyone listening?
@RuthCooper-l6j Says:
I’m in danger Dr Peterson
@reginaclaire4680 Says:
I would enjoy these talks much more if they weren’t so focused on me me me and the individual
@shrinivaaspillai6327 Says:
Remember the snake was a beast before,after God cursed the beast it became snake,beast could talk isn't it?what had beast done to Adam( female one) because of which he was cursed,why cain the first born was not considered Adam's son?If it was fruit which them sin,then fruit should redeem us,but that is not so,why the sacrifice of Abel was accepted of blood and cain rejected? Shows blood was contaminated,So cain was not of Adam's blood but Abel was,So satan worked through human beast in garden eden intervening in human race,So God prophesied theough prophets about a Son with a pure blood to redeem mankind.Isaian 9:6 and Hebrews 2:14 to 18 verse,God bless.
@cozmonauts932 Says:
I don’t think Matthieu is quite as sophisticated as his brother but his thought process is very interesting
@islyfe Says:
I come back to all Matthieu’s every once in a while. Gold
@KipIngram Says:
When I first started listening to Dr. Peterson, it felt like deep psychological insights with an occasional religion musing worked in. I honestly couldn't really tell what his religious beliefs were, beyond the fact that he was certainly tolerant of it. And he wasn't saying - all we ever heard was "I try to behave AS THOUGH God exists."
But more recently his material seems to be leaning into religion harder and harder, and specifically into Christianity. It seems absolutely clear to me now that Dr. Peterson is devoutly Christian. He still seems to want to stop short of actually SAYING that - I think that he feels he might lose some of his audience if he becomes identified as an evangelist. But more and more what he does sounds exactly like evangelism to me.
I am not a materialist. I think there is much more to us than our material bodies, so in that sense you can say I'm "spiritual." But I do not think there is any reason to believe that any of the specific stories pushed by the major organized religions are actually true. I think it's vitally important to our mental health that we not live life believing that the material is all there is. But I don't think that we're under any requirement to adhere to a particular pre-packaged set of beliefs. If there's one thing I insist on in life it's working things out for myself, and that's what I'e done on this front too.
@jackiekunovska8405 Says:
I feel that you are describing our spiritual evolving......yes I do believe we have been created to evolve...nothing is static in this universe
@thefacelessprophet Says:
Adam’s sin was “Harkening unto the voice of his wife”
Eve was the one deceived.
These are the lowest common denominators as follows.
Lucifer/ Serpent : Pride & Arrogance
Eve : Control & Power
Adam: Love & Sex
There were so many great insights in the conversation but when it came to some of the specific details of the stories, there were clear errors in the specific details.
I understood the train of thought but I found myself shouting back at the screen a few times when the specifics in the Bible came up 😂
Still enjoyed it very much. Thank you Brother Jordan!
@DoctorLazertron Says:
This is a rare species. Hope he chats more after the 2nd book drops.
@tristantinnon1926 Says:
Before any of it, does it not read "they created them in their image male and female." The underlying Yahist vs. Elohist "conversation" is there, and there's the Indo-European parallel in Manu, Yemo, and Trito, and Cain, Abel, and Seth, and all the Semitic and Mesopotamean and Indo-European and general Eurasian mythoi of Solar Heros against some Darwinian Feminine Chaos, and meta-views on that and on and on into psychedelia.
@ALavin-en1kr Says:
Religion is in symbolic language. The talking snake represents energy and its effects.
@markpogo3182 Says:
When you join with your enemy you kill yourself. Religion joining with political power. Worldly vs spiritual. You can take a stand on an issue (abortion) but not join a party in absolute
@MonaMarMag Says:
To me the Bible is like a living book
In short is a
Book of life = Book of love
@GraceSpunge Says:
The cherubs with the flaming sword represent the old and new testaments. that when studied and meditated upon, open the way to God consciousness in the elect.
(Gal 3:5)(1 Thessalonians 2:13)
In neuroscience, the word causes epigenetic adult neurogenesis in the elect, (those that possess God DNA). (Eph 5:25-27)
@DJTS1991Yes Says:
"One of Eve's roles is to give Adam a riddle."
I've recently been given the riddle of balancing work and looking after my family in person. My wife and I recently had our first born.
This is a riddle I probably won't solve for a while :P
@foxdenham Says:
A question for better minds than mine... I've never quite got, that the 'fall' is ultimately a bad thing.
If we make conclusions via the body/mind (via eating from the tree of knowledge) then yes, it can be considered 'bad', but on a divine level (tree of life) it might better be described as good, or at the very least neutral".
Surely the fulcrum of a balanced understanding might better be described as a universal law that ultimately looks (in the long term) like a necessary stumble, rather than a bad fall. The former points to resurrection, the latter to death.
I only ask this because, 'we become what we behold' and in the current zeitgeist, we tend to hold man's view of the fall, rather than God's which seems more than a tad problematic!
Can anyone please elucidate?
@claudette4113 Says:
Thank you both for being such blessings to the world
@SeanThomasCross Says:
1:33:29 So Christopher Langan's "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe"?
@amoh5 Says:
Pageau uses too much mysticism and mythologics for me.
I prefer listening to Dr Peterson because he tries to use more down to earth scientific language and perspective.
But I can't help think why they make the Adam and Eve story so complicated and mystical, when the obvious theme of the story is about 2 people going from childlike innocence to adult guilt when they supposedly done something wrong.
My suspicion about the forbidden fruit was actually the consumption of animal meat because an apple or a fig is food declared by God as acceptable. He said to Adam and Eve "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food"
I think the story was mystified when it was either written and/or during the translation process from Old Hebrew to Greek.
The thing about ancestral narratives about real life occurrences is that they used mythologics to jazz them up to make them more entertaining and enchanting. Therefore, you have to take out what seems too mythological and try to get a narrative that makes more realistic sense.
I think the Adam and Eve story is actually an allegorical summary account of early humans transitioning from a vegan diet to an omnivorous diet.
I also think that spiritual and emotional are the same thing.
We use 2 minds, our physical mind to rationalize physical material matter, and our emotional/spiritual minds to rationalize emotions and morality 😊
LATEST COMMENTS