Thanks for this, Dr. Peterson. A thoroughly animating conversation!
@yelllwow Says:
The way that Jordan answers questions about Christianity annoys materialists, is the same way that Jesus answered questions annoyed many in the Bible. I realized listening to this, the reason is they both are rejecting the framing and philosophy that underpins the question.
It's like someone asking if you stopped beating your wife, then getting upset when you don't give a simple yes or no answer. The difference is, people asking Jordan if the events in the Bible are real don't understand the assumptions they're making.
@coldtruth4u Says:
It was tasteless to say the least to dismiss and mock Peterson the way you did at the end. Be better
@ChewingGumFlavor Says:
45:18 "Hamlet might exist more"
45:24 "you but not me"
LMAO
@colosalblack Says:
It feels like Peterson often gish gallops himself into absurdity. He is very knowledgable but gets lost in the potential meanings of things often losing the plot entirely. It becomes so abstract that the point he is trying to make gets obscured in a salad of lingüistics and idealism.
@colosalblack Says:
hearing literally "religion is a meme" will never stop being funny to me
@arturodiaz1054 Says:
This aligns perfectly with what Peterson often emphasizes about the danger of ideological complacency. On one hand, you have the arrogant atheist who finds comfort in the pride of 'knowing' God doesn’t exist. On the other, the dogmatic Christian who sits comfortably in unexamined rituals, foolishly believing they possess the mind of Christ. Both sides are intellectually and spiritually lazy. Now that we’ve advanced to a more analytical and rational level of study, we cannot stay at the surface. As Jordan points out, salvation isn’t a cozy status—it’s a brutal, sacrificial endeavor. It forces you to look inward, voluntarily face the pain, and let die the parts of yourself that hold you back so you can finally aim at what your soul truly craves
@hameed.mp4 Says:
“I am more aware of the things that he knows that i don’t know than he is of the things I know that he doesn’t know” What a flex
@Adamin_The_III Says:
Alex - "I believe that this chair exists"
Really Alex? You do?
@Tom7777-m8x Says:
Scepticism or even atheism is actually a precondition for the development of true spiritual awareness
@Tom7777-m8x Says:
Actually distrusting your sense data is the precipice of Awakening.
@Tom7777-m8x Says:
Enneagram 1 in conversation with enneagram 6.
@jmcsquared18 Says:
I would've given this a like if you hadn't dropped that atrocious anti-abortion advertisement in the video.
A fetus cannot have any conscious experience in the 1st trimester. Abortion during that period is nothing short of healthcare for women, period.
@hrimr_ambient Says:
I'm an atheist but I can't listen to Dawkins when it comes to religion. The guy is too far up his own arse.
@hrimr_ambient Says:
Eye opening.
@bmacdoogle Says:
Fantastic episode. I am extremely inspired by these two. May they help us all reach for more and good in the world
@jontyubbink1598 Says:
Hell is being salted with fire. You can be salted with fire in this life, or put it off till the next life. But whether your are salted in this life or the next, God is trying to purge out of you everything that is not of loves kind in both.
@wtwaje Says:
41:32 this exchange sounds like what a root canal feels
@jontyubbink1598 Says:
Those who ask Jordan Peterson if he believes in God, are forgetting that some people believe in God intuitively and some people believe in God knowingly. Those who believe in God intuitively, base this on how they feel after they return to living right after a season of living wrong. They prefer the woosh from doing right, rather than the absense of the woosh for doing wrong. But they don't personally know where the woosh comes from. So people who believe in God knowingly, are different from people who believe in God intuitively. So you can't ask Jordan Peterson - who only believes in God intuitively - if he believes knowingly. This is because Jordan cant tell you knowingly where the woosh comes from. Where if you asked a believer if he or she believes in God, they will tell you yes, because they personally know where the woosh comes after returning from a season of vile living.
@clydekaila123 Says:
1:35:30 Right there. Flew right past Alex's head 😅
@kaleabmiitku1934 Says:
I love Jordan Peterson!
@wolfhawk1999 Says:
Two people that are almost Christians having the deepest conversation about the meaning of Christianity is wild
@vapourmile Says:
Alex, this is the exact point where your line of enquiry reached the point where you can hope to attract an intelligent audience. You did everything right. Behind you are the days of trying to score points and the religious debate is possibly the best example of a debate being brought down to the lowest common denominator by people trying to score cheap points, "Prove God exists!", etc. I am an atheist and sadly it's necessary to say that as as soon as I criticise other atheists'' handling of the debate the very same people who frequently overclaim on their dedication to "science, logic, facts and reason" (which deserves to become a meme lampooning exactly that type of person who turns out to have almost no grasp of anything on that list) will 'accuse' me of being religious purely because I don't think everything said by atheists about religion is true.
Even as an atheist you can have something approx9iamting the shape of a genuine theological enquiry as any genuine theological enquiry will make genuine enquiries into questions of biblical historicity and whether or not the bible stories can on any level be said to be true. You mention archaeological evidence and there is archaeological evidence for some of the bible stories. Look up "Sennacherib's Annals" for some of the most interesting examples.
What you can also do is think of the effects of religion on the religious. Most commentary is devoted to suicide bombers rather than Christians who give more to charity, enjoy a larger community with better social bonds and have better lifelong career success than atheists. Sure "that doesn't negate suicide bombing and it doesn't make god real" but it also doesn't necessitate flattening the story as to only admit a derogatory take on the story. I'd suggest to discover if religion also does some good is on the same tier as an investigation to discover if all men are evil only to hear people say "Well that doesn't negate rapists". Sure, but it can serve to highlight the sensationalism the media prefers is not only not the full story, it isn't even much of the story taken by proportionality.
Originally wanting to ape Christopher Hitchens has bro8ughtb you to a good place. I think now the only things you can do, in my opinion, to improve your content is to continue broadening and deepening your range of interests in each of the topics you discuss. It's impossible to do this extensively for all topics you might discuss of course as just picking one can lead to a lifetime of concentrated study but then, if this interests you as much as it appears to then transferring into full time genuine religious analysis specialising in Christianity could be a path for you to think about. It can also do for you what I believe it is doing for JBP: Working towards being taken seriously by influential Christians. Theology is not merely an intellectual ladder, it's also a class ladder, and that's what I think pulls JBP towards it.
As an atheist I am going to close on some criticism of JBP here. By doing what you should do which is taking his side as mutual theological enquiry rather than taking opposition in a debate and giving him more room to speak you have exposed the principal problem with his own position which is the same problem with JBP generally and that's that he is essentially a sophist in that his position relies heavily on obfuscation in the service of attempting to make his position sound far more deep and sophisticated than it is. In fact, his analysis isn't deep or sophisticated. His arguments about "truth" or "historically real events" depend very heavily on a simple transition from material facts to the idea of essential truths an metaphors that may be found in fable, but, and here's the problem, when you unpack it that's his whole defence and it isn't surprising because we all know the bible uses fable and metaphor and we already broadly understand the functions of both so his "revelation" is not even a tiny bit revelatory and once you are past that doorway into what he means by "truth" he doesn't have anything more epistemically valuable to say once he has admitted the obvious that the bible isn't all literally true. The next problems with that are these:
1. You don't need to open a bible to find teaching tales. They are everywhere. Aesop's fables. The Pali canon. Journey to the West. Greek mythology. Winnie-the-Pooh. The boy who cried wolf and millions of examples of average fiction found in bookshops all over the world.
2. As indicated above you don't need to open the bible if you want teaching tales. We still write them. You also don't need teaching tales if you want to learn how to behave better in real life situations. You can learn CBT instead. There is little defence of the bible over other sources except to tap into Christian religious culture and the social advantages that come with it.
So, once you're past his "they're fables" gate he doesn't have much interesting to say about them and you still don't need the bible not even if you acknowledge that we still live in a world very broadly informed by Christian moral principles, even then you can safely abandon Christianity and find more reliable more literal sources which suffer far less from impenetrable vagueness and opacity than the bible does and Peterson's own tactic of hiding behind intentionally vagueness and opacity really don't lend him credibility to an intelligent audience because it's so obviously a tactic to avoid being cornered by having to admit he still doesn't really have anything interesting to say.
@Marzipanogia Says:
i'm so embarrassed that you're the same species as me
@dysaffiliate Says:
2:53 i did not know there had been a swoop. the swoop! also thats a nice jacket on Dr.JBP - he wears it well, its beautiful, and it means something.
okay, now to learn a little more about yester-years
25:05 "I believe the accounts, but I have no idea what they mean." 🎤🫳 like dannng
(slightly smiling) cosmicsCeptic sat down next to a cosmicfaithful~ oof!
for real, thats an actually solid position, practically speaking. been a minute. really lively conversation so far!
32:45 no, thered still be a cost, it just wouldnt be immediate - or, it wouldnt be just immediate. "the boy who cried wolf" and the spirals caused by "false alarms" (be it trauma, general anxiety, misinformation, confusion, the list goes on), the upfront cost would be in nervous system upheaval. over time a person would develop chronic symptoms of repeated stress whether or not threat(s) were present or verified. i get the point being made, just adding a thought in there (its probably already been added by someone else)
44:18 okay, i understand better now. uhm good luck, Dr.JBP. i mean, any conversation is not a total lost cause from the get but...yeah. i see (your point) a lot clearer. and as for the question right before this, people ask because they want to attain a conceptual anchor point - at least one solid point of common conceptual ground (convergence) that can be phrased through assertions. your admittedly complex position does place you precariously in a question-answer-question-answer formatted dialogue. so, perhaps, every now and again, interpret (even verbally negotiate) another's question, whether christian or otherwise, somewhat charitably enough to admit to a single point (obviously, when you can and think you should, etcetera) or, even more than one point. they just want to know at least somewhere metaphysically you and they have touched on the same ground, picked up a handful of its earth, and each/all took that handful with them as they continued
1:00:28 these are some ...really interesting points being made. at high speed, cause yall both talk really fast and saying a lot (somehow). im especially intrigued by this yggdrasil...never heard of it
1:19:06 mr Dr. jordan peterson:
evil is misunderstood(?)
evil is not being comprehended(?)
"Eve stands for the voice of the serpent." ...i really need to get to reading the bible cuzzzzz o.o i cant keep getting spoilers like this~ (mostly petersonian spoilers, not the run of the mill plot points) in any event... 🌪️🌪️🌪️
(tornado: lots of thoughts, really fast, from everywhere, in absurd and strange ways) i suppose, the general idea is it couldnt fit in the brain - but it probably could in my line of sight? in the actual field my eyesight avails? whatever this is that is not..."adequately labeled and ordered(?)" so to speak, adam could not conceptually experience life; eve could not concretely experience life-orsomethinglikethatidkspit balling SPIT BALLING dont sue me
my head is spinning. really good conversation, rather...a lot, and yeah: hey Dr.JBP, what do you mean by speak? im torn between researching totalitarian states, another bowl of mac n cheese, the cookie, aot, doing a cornell note thing on something, rewatching the last 12 minutes of this episode, and drawing a picture of what i finally conceived of when somebody said he suffered as a man despite being god
@-adamboommy116 Says:
1:53:00 the beautiful sum of what Christianity snd the divine is getting to.
@-adamboommy116 Says:
1:05:00 very interesting
@-adamboommy116 Says:
35:00
@ramkat4u Says:
19:30 how can a non theologian thinks he can debate in theology?
@realbigveggie Says:
1:44:20 Jesus defeated the FEAR of death and hell to the believers.
@fdauerbach Says:
JP is the ultimate anti-postmodern postmodern
@becomewhatyoumean6716 Says:
There are matters of science and matters of faith. Use the scientific method to prove you love your mother. Would you allow your family to cross a bridge built by a clergyman who had no training as an engineer, but said the world’s greatest blessing over it?
Dr. Peterson seems to be saying “Use the right tool for the right job.”
@JahtaAja-x1z Says:
@1:29:00 Now this is an interesting experiment: Feed only one kind of religious ideology to many AIs and then let them debate. I wonder if they will do the same thing that humans do.
@JahtaAja-x1z Says:
I like that both Alex and Jordan admit there are things they don't know.
@raymondkohlhardt2249 Says:
Alex talks so fast I thought I accidentally hit the increase speed button
@allykatblue Says:
Is Adam and Eve just a historical mythology representative of growing up?
@Wiggawagga Says:
So Jordan has a belief that he would die for but can’t say for certain any of it really happened. 🧐
@paradiseheaven Says:
1:51:48 isn’t that a Socratic endeavor?
@paradiseheaven Says:
15:36 what’s at the basis I believe is love, the search for love and acceptance either by the source (your parents) or from yourself
@leebennett1821 Says:
Basically God is a comfort Blanket for People Afraid of Death
@caricatureparty Says:
50:08 So I think anytime you ask Jordan Peterson if something is true, you just have to say "...true in the narrow, historical sense.."
@jonathanjonathansen Says:
Not even Socrates would have been able to get an answer out of Peterson
@I_EAF_19882 Says:
Good lord Peterson is so hard to listen to
@TitleistKC11 Says:
Regarding Hell
Alex: "If I ask you, for example, is Hitler being punished now?"
Jordan: "See the answer to that question is something like what is the the relationship between the evanescent consciousness of man and eternity?"
😐.
@tylerh3378 Says:
In one sense Adam and Eve didn’t die “right away” but in another sense wouldn’t that have just put them into judgement? In a place they were already in and as a consequence their evolution continues to “die” across time?
@tomspark_ Says:
Always enjoy watching this conversation
@asbk3286 Says:
The end of dogma, is the birth of morality - Immanuel Kant.
@notunchainedjango Says:
24:00 I DONT UNDERSTAND A DIME! Too abstract and meaningless shit
@ryanmiller154 Says:
I saw one of Alex's videos earlier today. Dude is super bright.
@ChessLifeRussia Says:
I don't even know why am subscribed here....
Like seriously, i don't understand what most of these guys are saying
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