Dr Jordan B Peterson and Jeff Sandefer discuss the k-12 education machine, its origins and failures, and how the Acton Institutes are making leaps to correct the system.
Jeff Sandefer is an entrepreneur and Socratic teacher. He started his first business at 16 and graduated from Harvard Business School. Jeff has started and runs many successful companies, his most recent being Sandefer Capital Partners, an oil and gas investment firm with several billion dollars in assets. He has also started multiple academic programs and schools, such as the Action School of Business, whose students were named the 'most competitive MBA's in the nation' by the Princeton Review. This has since extended into k-12 with the Action Academy, a cutting-edge program that blends a one-room schoolhouse, the Socratic Method, and 21st-century technology to empower each student to change the world.
Dr Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: https://bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Links -
For Jeff Sandefer:
Acton Academy website – '21st century learning in one-room schoolhouse.'
Children's Business Fair website – 'young entrepreneurs gather to launch neighborhood businesses.'
Courage to Grow: - 'Acton Academy's origin story, for entrepreneurial parents.'
- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(1:25) Intro
(3:05) Business, incentive, and starting early
(6:45) Socratic teaching, the case method
(8:23) Toward your next step
(11:40) The judgment of Moses
(12:30) Fascination with questions
(13:41) Fathers, reaching the top
(16:17) Joe Rogan, the breadth of reach
(18:50) Ask a stupid question
(21:00) Building the Acton program
(25:30) The origin of education
(28:58) Every child is a genius
(32:30) Approaches to teaching
(33:35) Regardless of IQ…
(35:03) Experiments in culture
(39:20) Grading by effort, attainment, and social investment
(43:08) No.1 in 18 months, franchising
(46:20) Don't worry if your child isn't speaking yet
(50:01) Auditing students, accountability
(51:40) Gaming the system, control mechanisms
(54:05) Markers for toxic students
(58:09) The influence of testosterone at 13
(59:30) Offsetting the Pareto distribution
(1:01:20) Gratitude as a practice
(1:03:50) Acton apprenticeships
(1:08:35) The success of education belongs to the students
(1:10:25) Freud, the devouring mother
(1:12:13) Playing games to develop culture
(1:18:09) Identifying the problem is crucial
(1:21:26) Socratic discussion
(1:23:20) Opposing sides
(1:25:01) Pageau: distributed responsibility and nested games
(1:27:12) The three meaningful questions even 8-year-olds ask
(1:31:20) Launch-padders, prestige versus competence
(1:33:35) Adjuncts, the internet, and the depletion of the current model
(1:37:45) The teachers we remember
(1:40:00) Domains of learning and ideological capture
(1:42:20) Woke culture and the victim mentality
(1:44:21) Age, wealth, and biological capitol
(1:46:45) Temple Grandin
(1:48:15) Higher education and finding your calling
(1:52:35) The importance of Vision
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John Taylor Gatto not Paul Gotti: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto
@chrischristenson4547 Says:
My friend Page had a sign on his door
the door is open come in
it is ok to knock and come in
please avoid coming unless very urgent
only interrupt if the building is burning
Page was very approachable and helpful
when he was doing very hard things interruptions were expensive
my wife worked at home
there were very rare interruptions
she said it was expensive to reload her brain when she was developing the SIDS diagnostics system
@abisoyewilliams-mumuni4881 Says:
5:58 Imp
@Blaygamez Says:
What a gem I stumbled upon, thank you both!
@frugalgardener7921 Says:
Once a celebrity one is isolated from "how's on the ground " i know of Acton experience on the ground because family member went there and their parent was teachers assistant to help with tuition. It was a one star experience. Very little teaching took place. Glad we are no longer part of that experience. Perhaps that one was pooorly run. But nothing as on promotional videos or as described above. Im surprised Peterson fell for this marketing fluff. It was a money making machine a disservice to America. We want to move a highly sophisticated chip making to US not with kids educated at that school for sure. If they're to be on universal income ordering GrubHub then Yes. Disappointment as I followed Peterson for many years now. .. .
@abbythornton5726 Says:
I'm a math teacher and I've been playing with the idea of including more explicitly a Socratic seminar structure in class. I think the main skill I'm trying to impart to my students is how to think logically with numbers and functions, and back up their problem solving choices with evidence. Planning on integrating this more formally next year.
With math, I do usually ask a question that I know the answer to (because I want students to discover a specific connection or process). There are really only a few types of math questions (that are level appropriate) you can ask where there is no settled answer besides "what method is best to solve this problem?"
@Lady-ER-1967 Says:
I have an IQ of 98 according to some Mensa test I took recent, it was for 16 year olds, it was so hard, I got more than I thought I’d get tho, I thought I’d get IQ of 70 or lower, I can’t do much for myself tho, no one ever employed me, I’ve live in a home for disabled all my life, no skills or qualifications etc, I can’t spell or read & write proper, I can’t do maths, or clean my own home without help all my life, I can’t shop or cook properly, it took me until I was 10 year old to dress myself, I can’t read the time proper, no grammar skills, bad memory, slow responding speed etc, no hobbies or friends, I try though, people say I’m not profoundly retarded but my health has always been real bad & doctors etc make sure I stay ill, they pulled out a healthy tooth when I was in my 20’s & left me dying many times saying I’m not ill but wouldn’t examine me, I got an operation eventually cause someone brainy told them to check me out. Im on government handouts, when I get to retirement age my money will go down so far I will be made homeless cause I never worked etc. If an IQ of 98 is the high end of low average I think more people struggle a lot higher up than what the American Army minimum entrance IQ of 83 is @JordanBPeterson
@yosefshtaygrud2643 Says:
Thank you Jordan for such an unbelievable podcast. I love to teach and this makes me have hope for the future of teaching/education. What a radical idea of self governance and apprenticeship, but hell this is so much better than what we got with the school military prison model.
@mikerussell2590 Says:
we the people are funding our public schools. the results are atrocious. let capitalism fix it and get the government out of it.
@blindtimetv3471 Says:
I have been watching Jordan Peterson for years now. This has got to be the best episode and possibly the best podcast I’ve ever seen. Implementing schools with this kind of a framework could possibly change the country and the world and reroute things into a lot more of a Healthfully competitive and creative atmosphere
@cirelo1896 Says:
I don’t like Montessori because she is in the constructivist school of education and was also heavily influenced by Rousseau. The constructivists work with the idea you construct your own reality as opposed to it being objective. And all truth is rooted in experience and is not objective. You can hear in that so many myths of modern culture that Jordan seems to be against. The trans movement is certainly rooted in this philosophy. I know Jordan is into Piaget who was another constructivist and was brilliant but I think the theory is flawed. Rousseau believed in the original innocence of children and that society corrupted them. Montessori follows this idea in her pedagogy that a child already has in itself everything. No need for teachers in a traditional sense. You get child led learning as the only learning and natural consequences as the only discipline. It is an ideology. You end up with stupid bratty children. While it appears to be effective for teaching reading and math to 3-6 year olds it drops off dramatically after that for children. There aren’t solid studies to back it up. Proponents of it are cult like.
@Neptunion118 Says:
guy needs to hire a graphic designer and copywriter. the website is trite.
@janisedmondson7132 Says:
I have no concept of how this school system works…wish the explanation was clearer. I.e, are there teachers in the room? Is there any structure to the day? From the way he explains it the kids educate themselves.
@debbiewood3819 Says:
Thank you Dr. Peterson for have this man your program....this is beautiful!
@davidvictor575 Says:
Paid by the tank
@joseluismelendez821 Says:
John Taylor Gatto and Jordan Peterson would have been a very special interview. May I suggest Tragedy and Hope long and precious interview with Richard Grove and John Taylor Gatto.
@S.Jordan.Domine Says:
I used to go to Acton academy
@janschonberger1407 Says:
These videos are truely helping me through the roughest time I have had yet. I will keep improving and thank you Jordan ! ❤
@LeadingPaws Says:
7:06 🤣 damn dude, you really did work hard digging oil from 16 if you look like that at 29!
@bethaniacounseling Says:
Classical education is growing. My older children attend a classical school called The Lyceum. Good school!
@TheWEquilFamily Says:
Great interview!
@theimperialrazzledazzle Says:
This conversation revealed an entirely different way of perceiving the educational systems.
🤦🏾♂️
The entire public system should be overhauled. But...
@margueriteoosthuizen6006 Says:
I'd love to hear opinions here on how using AI influences the socratic learning process. Just a thought :)
@danx1216 Says:
Wrong JP
The Whistleblowers are more than worth the individual anonymous psychopaths WHEN the govt is itself Psychopathic /and tyrannical as it was during the Criminal lockdowns
@StacySelah Says:
1:23:58 boy I need my Husband to listen & HEAR this….ASAP
@bobolden6858 Says:
Dennis Prager says the left destroys everything it touches. No better example than public education! Thanks for this great interview showing how great public education could be if we could just start over (with the right ideas and the Socratic principles). Christoper Rufo recently told of the way Victor Orban is overhauling education in Hungary. May God grant that the USA and other democratic nations may wrestle public education out of the left’s degenerate clutches!!
@sandyrinaldi7614 Says:
As soon as my pension increases a little more, I will join the Daily Wire Plus. Strong enjoyment of this episode. Have dreams of working with youth & books in my neighborhood, & you are beefing up these dreams.
Sandy Rinaldi, Arkansas, US Army veteran 1971 to 1974, today 3 AUG 23
@panasyuk08 Says:
Safe to say JP “gave the devil his due”
@ashvandal5697 Says:
There is no age where reading the Iliad is correct. Material like that must be willfully pursued by students. You can hold it up as one of the greatest works of western tradition but it has to remain an aspirational goal, rather than a basic requirement.
I’ve read it. I passed the class. I remember absolutely nothing about it. Pretty sure I bs’d most of the book report.
@vtbobm Says:
Too funny... In the 43 minute JBP didn't realize that Sandefer told him to stop interrupting him 😂😅😂 (as much as I love and appreciate JBP... His domineering behavior during interviews is quite a pet peeve of mine)
@zpettigrew Says:
THIS - is impressive! Really is. Good work JBP.
@CowboyStoicism Says:
Great conversation. Thank you to both of you 🙏
@bislig2alabama Says:
Follow the word
@pickelop860 Says:
The reason he has a 100% reading rate is because they fire the kids that aren’t performing.
@pickelop860 Says:
In the first 7 minutes I can say I would never send a child to this guy’s school. He acts self made when he both was handed special access and exploited those around him for profit. He is motivated by money.
@jacojoubert6230 Says:
Any listeners or viewers from South Africa?
@bevmerr Says:
I gotta release into this podcast because it sounds too amazing and very informational I have got to take note
@YaaaTheGoodLife Says:
You know, Jordan's obviously an extremely intelligent guy. But I think if he listens to this again, he may find that his constant interjections and commentary show that his love for being right outpaces his love for being curious. It was frustrating trying to listen to someone I want to know much more about while being constantly be derailed by Jordan who, judging by what he demonstrates, wasn't interested.
@bevmerr Says:
Totally awesome.
@audreyflowers9999 Says:
13:01
@falconinflight6235 Says:
The Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Federalist Papers should be studied in depth from grades 7 through 12.
@et2792 Says:
I'd like to hear these two discuss the writings of Paul Goodman, and discuss Summerhill (not the modern iteration, but the initial inception and writings that derived from it).
@scottgilsdorf2938 Says:
The most favorite video I’ve listened to ever! Loved this on so many levels! I can’t wait to share this! Thank you for what you do!
@lordvoldemort4242 Says:
I graduated university last August, I studied psychology. I never found a mate, and now I might just have to use a love portion.
@jacquelinealthoff5842 Says:
Somebody got these men taller chairs. Poor Jordon is going to hit his chin on his knees😁😉😉
@roymaitland6345 Says:
I think a "Heritage University" , of basic needs and skills of Old, are taught! Bring back Shop Class / Husbandry.
@latinspoonalanicaragua3738 Says:
I can't help it but feel so proud of my mother. She was a teacher for many years. But in Nicaragua somehow she found herself teaching the unwanted. When I say that I mean the troubled kids, the sons of prostitutes and those terribly labeled by society. After many years in exile she was able to go back home. When she came back she was humbly amazed and rather flabbergasted. She said she would be walking on the street and men would stop her, introduce themselves to her and speak with great kindness and they would tell her "I was your student in the third grade, and look at me today, I'm a new man because you changed my life" the students would stop her and tell her "I'm a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer because of you". I feel so emotional just thinking about these things, but my mother is just an amazing human being. She fought for my father's life while imprisoned for not following the narrative and being a Christian. He almost died because of torture but my mother with all her love rehabilitated him and even taught him to walk again. The last time she went back was probably ten years ago and came back with the story of a student who stopped her and told her his story, he was the kid no one wanted to deal with but he was standing in front of her telling her yet again " my beautiful teacher, I'm who I'm today because of you" . She was a bit sore about this one though because he wouldn't tell her his name because he wanted her to be the one who remembered him😊. Based on the description she told me I say is the kid she used to speak of who was called "King"....he happened to be a huge challenge for my mother but by the end of the school year she was pleased with herself because even then she knew King had learned something. "La maestra" as she tells me I used to call her when I was four is simply someone I honor in my life and I thank her for being so courageous even in those moments when the circumstances demanded weakness...what a woman my mom has been and is, one who always spoke of the betterment of the human being and if the understanding that everyone deserves more and better...La Maestra Marina Marin one day will leave a legacy of changed lives because of her love of teaching, compassion and empathy.....I hope many teachers understand the importance of the role they play in a student's life instead of being there just to collect a paycheck.
@tutorknights Says:
1:04:59 gratitude is the only fix for victimhood
@aurinsaint9058 Says:
I remember starting on spiderman comics and the other ncredible hulk. Then my father recommended The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. I fell in love with the story. Then started my love of classical literature.
@TexasGolfer Says:
4% seems too low for machiavellians, but you all are the experts. Maybe what we see in the world is the aggregate of all dysfunctional personalities which is much larger than 4%.
His idealogical capture view is very naive. The forefathers believed in economic, religious and political freedoms and the US has been highjacked and the federal government corrupted. To my earlier point, when the dysfunctional personalities gather in authority positions they corrupt the system.
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