Welcome to the Jordan B Peterson podcast season 4, episode 53. This episode was recorded on June 14th, 2021.
Dr. Clay Routledge is an existential psychologist, writer, and professor at North Dakota State University. He's also a senior research fellow at the Archbridge Institute and an editor for Profectus magazine. Dr. Routledge studies basic psychological needs and how they're shaped by family, social bonds, economics, and broader cultural worldviews. He has published over 100 scholarly papers, co-edited three books on existential psychology, and written several books, including Nostalgia: A Psychological Resource, Supernatural: Death, Meaning, and the Power of the Invisible World.
A lot of Dr. Routledge's work - like Dr. Peterson's - focuses on the need for meaning. The two had a wide-ranging conversation about loneliness, meaning, nostalgia, Terror Management Theory, and existential psychology. They also shared views on human progress, responsibility, religion, and UFOs.
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[00:00] Intro
[00:18] Jordan B. Peterson introduces guest Dr. Clay Routledge
[01:55] How Dr. Clay Routledge got into his work
[09:43] Terror Management Theory
[18:33] The resistance to Terror Management Theory
[22:01] Existential Psychology
[27:09] The psychology of nostalgia
[34:31] What elicits nostalgia
[40:36] Pain responses
[44:58] Reminiscence therapy and nostalgia
[47:47] Collective nostalgia
[54:48] Religion and its cultural impact
[01:04:03] Secularism and UFOs
[01:08:33] Politics, control, and meaning
[01:16:36] The different kinds of meaning and the freedom of restraint
[01:24:17] Filling the hole of religion
[01:28:34] Human progress
[01:32:38] Dr. Routldge's survey of American progress amongst university students and the apocalypse
[01:43:43] Meaning across different cultures
[01:48:18] Religion in free-market societies and ethical principles
[01:51:56] Dr. Routledge's qualitative taxonomy on meaning
[01:55:18] Responsibility and meaning
[02:02:12] Loneliness
[02:07:35] Dr. Routledge's purpose with his work
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#JordanPeterson #Nostalgia #TerrorManagementTheory #Loneliness #Meaning
Visit www.jordanbpeterson.com to view more information about Jordan, his books, lectures, social media, blog posts, and more.
Jordan B. Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, a clinical psychologist, and the author of the multi-million copy bestseller 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, #1 for nonfiction in 2018 in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, the Netherlands, Brazil, and Norway, and slated for translation into 50 languages.
Dr. Peterson has appeared on many popular podcasts and shows, including the Joe Rogan Experience (#877, #958, #1006), The Rubin Report (12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, Free Speech, Psychology, Gender Pronouns), H3H3 (#37), and many more. Dr. Peterson's own podcast has focused mainly on his lecture series, covering a great deal of psychology and historical content. Jordan is expanding his current podcast from lectures to interviews with influential people around the world. We hope you enjoy this episode and more to come from Dr. Peterson in the future.
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You need to know how to listen to your mind by using the sub conscience. You control your thoughts, and not the other way around.
@brandoncoleman4013 Says:
Hey Jordan! I was thinking about what you said about talking to the man from Guantanamo Bay, then some thought occurred to me. Do you think that if tribalism creates a sense or web of interconnectedness giving a sense of meaning than that in turn is what makes it so hard in the west for this quazi tribalism you see with people on the far left and what's actually keeping them from being able to break through their ideology and presuppositions? This sense of intense connectedness and meaning, blocking their vision of truth? It seems to me that even with misguided meaning, it's so important for people to have something meaningful in their lives that they will stop at no cost to keep it, it's almost as if offering the truth to people who are ideologues strips them of their meaning and they subconsciously avoid that at all costs weather or not they know the actual truth deep down?
@davidfarrall Says:
We should perhaps show others the way ahead by our personal sacrifices and implementing abilities. If we can demonstrate the things that work well, those disadvantaged people that can be might be motivated to follow suit.
@davidfarrall Says:
Ethical business, not for profit organisations and leadership by example are surely good precepts for a healthy future. But I lack a relationship and my own family, so I look to society and religion and spirituality for the future. Yes, I’m finding lots of meaning by carrying a heavy load and some expectations of others - this binds you better into the tribe but by breaking new ground you can also have many detractors because you are upsetting the status quo somewhat.
@davidfarrall Says:
Nostalgia does help to ameliorate depression, pain, loneliness, etc. provided you stay in the Now or Present.
@davidfarrall Says:
I’ve used Professor Nicolas Taleb’s Antifragility techniques to boost the body’s pain management and analgesics. Athletes do this in their specialisations and training too.
@davidfarrall Says:
Overthinking over-anything could destroy your reality map, which is usually close at hand (within 5-10 metres, say).
@davidfarrall Says:
You can get lost in even simple things. Yesterday, I got lost walking on the side verge of the A6006 in Leicestershire. A young man (Tom?) kindly sensed this and stopped to give me a lift into Barrow-on-Soar. Thanks go to the people in Barrow who put me back on to my pathway home by bus. This was a success because I learnt something not to repeat!
@davidfarrall Says:
Stories, role models, Heroes etc. help and inspire us. Emulation can allow you to become “superhuman” and pumped but we all rely on each other and our mutual support to do this. Eventually, you have more or less no fear of death but must be careful with this superpower, respecting all others and situations in Life. Death terror in life may be worse than Death itself. But we can all work together on this sort of thing, a weave and weft that reinforces us and creates the possibility for future survival.
@davidfarrall Says:
I only went Red Pill from Blue Pill about 3 years ago, risky Leap of Faith at 60 years old. I thought of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom when he crossed the chasm to achieve this! Now, I feel confident of the Matrix in my life.
@renehay2055 Says:
No everything doesn't go. Spirituality is the development of our soul where we find our connection to each other in the deepest sense. We are only separate in this manifestation where upon we wear blinders intentionally.
@renehay2055 Says:
I don't get how we claim a true belief in anything without having an honest individual experience
@renehay2055 Says:
Joe dispenza and Gregg Braden
@renehay2055 Says:
Exactly why we reach into the Akash to assist us in our truest aim. Are you doing breath work and or meditating Jordan?? You have a catalytic presence. We can easily transcend pain. It's just difficult to maintain such a state at least until adequate emotional support and spiritual alignment is attained
@annkazunas7207 Says:
Being a chronic pain being from a failed spinal fusion and now finding a fracture and slipped disc under the 2 rods and 5 screws at bottom of spine. When the pain becomes so unbearable I have taken up to conversations with self absolutely no mention of any kind of pain is allowed just full conversation on any topic that don't bring any feelings of anger nor pain. Also being in a place of beauty,laughter, joy, so hard but even for 1 minute at a time makes you just know that pain levels go up and go down . Thinking of anything in the past also gives COMFORT a word not mentioned here . Which is amazing . Those thoughts of family or friends eatring a pie or having drinks what ever it may be is comforting. Also I don't know about anyone else but when I'm at a high pain level I don't want to be around anyone I want isolation. I don't want others to feel helpless nor do I want to say anything to hurt anyone's feelings. But I do find it very odd that the word comforting, comfort where never used or brought up. Talking about Nostalgic and no mention of comfort is odd questionable.
@AlmostZenTV Says:
I love these topics. Thinking about death is right up my alley.
@susanmazzella865 Says:
Surrounded by loved ones and they still feel alone? People aren't objects like this fellow implies. I am not a they.
@arcthelink75 Says:
How this video only has 12k likes 8 months after being published in a huge let down. I didn't expect it to be this good. You both take about value, worth, and morals so well. Great talk Doctor Peterson and... Doctor? Clay? I'm sorry if I missed your title. I'm not questioning it. I just don't remember while writing this comment and can't check or I have to rewrite all of it. Thank you both!
@silasfreeman2856 Says:
It's sad my father served in the military and when he died they didn't even put his name on the back of his medal that I received for his efficiency honor and fidelity I see the respect that's paid
@silasfreeman2856 Says:
Okay but explain how people used to live for 900 years if not longer back then
@freezyourit Says:
I think threshold of pain is cultural, social, individualistic and personality.
Experiences, both good and bad, can affect pain. Shame, guilt and social status should be looked at.
@terryfrancis10 Says:
Spiritual but not religious could be scientific too from the consistent reports of Near Death Experiencers that death appears to have many evidential validations that afterlife exists usually consisting of a god presence so religious? well yes bc it gives even observers a sense of peace believing them that death is not meant for suffering but for learning. I think it's beautiful.
@paulrettig1507 Says:
Talking about the study of nostalgia and using it to help you move forward has helped me understand a lifelong what I thought was a problem of thinking back to a simpler time in my past. I now know that I have done this in order to move forward and in some regards has helped me temper the pain of loneliness that has occurred during these times which I believe have triggered these memories. On a side note, I have a very high tolerance for paying also which seems to fall right in line with the studies being done. Thank you Dr Peterson for discussing this subject with Dr. Routledge.
@tommythompson7941 Says:
So can I outsmart me being my own worst enemy or not?
@warmflash Says:
I’d like an extra spoonful of ESG on my CRT SJW Queer-Theory Trans-Activist Woke Globalist Great Reset Anti-Racist LGBTQ+ Pride Groomers Extinction Rebellion agenda please.
@rosad538 Says:
Romans 16:19
@barbcarbon9440 Says:
Infuriating
@barbcarbon9440 Says:
Your attitudes about Universal basic income are poisonous and I hope absolutely no one is taking you seriously.
@barbcarbon9440 Says:
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Are there going to be some people who just live off of universal basic income and do nothing else? Of course. Just like there are people doing that with all kinds of welfare programs now. But the truth about universal basic income is that it gives people the opportunity to take a breath and figure out what they need to do to better themselves. It’s not just, “hey, here’s some money, sorry you’re stupid.“ It’s a chance for people to have their basic needs met so that they can become entrepreneurs or go back to school or learn a trade and not starve to death while they’re doing it. And I’m talking from experience here because I am an extremely smart and extremely hard-working adult who is going back to college and can barely afford to live because this economy is built to keep us down if we are not already up.
@barbcarbon9440 Says:
Everything that you have to say about universal basic income shows me that you know nothing about universal basic income. Do you want people to have meaning in their lives? Stop making it necessary for them to work completely meaningless and trivial BS minimum wage jobs just to survive. Universal basic income gives people the opportunity to do something meaningful.
@barbcarbon9440 Says:
It must be really easy to sit in your nice house with your big paycheck and talk about how giving people support will make them want to kill themselves. Do you know what makes people want to kill themselves? Working yourself to death and still having no money.
@barbcarbon9440 Says:
Try being a gay woman for ONE DAY and then talk to me about why religion is so helpful.
@mouthfulladeez Says:
We are living in A Brave Nuclear Age, the grandchildren of Nietzsche's NuGod. The Great War continues, no happily ever after the shell-shocked 20th century, into a schizoid 21st. In whom do we trust?
@thecollageman3290 Says:
Great chat, Thank you guys.
@thecollageman3290 Says:
Common belief helps with resillsnce. An ancor to hold on to in times of stress.
@dynamicloveministries334 Says:
The immortality issue has been dealt with in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. We have one man that has paved the way to immortality.
@TheEternalOuroboros Says:
I didn't hear a single solid rebuttal of TMT here. Jordan should refine his argument against it. His "meaning" stuff is not a great rebuttal.
@sixonegfour2719 Says:
I’m very thankful to have sat in on this conversation. I look forward to the others that are available. Thank you!!
@ColonelRoge Says:
40:17 it’s the Bene Gesserit test to see if you’re human!!
@soloauditor Says:
people fear death because they have no understanding what actually is happening beside the body kicking the bucket. That is the problem and that is the reason people fear to lose that solid object- the body. if people would have understanding, would have reality --- if they would know the truth that they are Spirits, they are Infinite and they are not matter than they would not fear death of that matter which which was nothing more than a anchor onto a locations.
@soloauditor Says:
Immorality project????? that would in my book when the person would take a Path which would lead to discovery , would bring on a realization: that I AM NOT A BODY BUT A SPIRITUAL ENTITY AND I ONLY OCCUPY THE BODY LONG AS IT LIVES than I move and start anew with a different body, have different identity and have very different experiences.
@soloauditor Says:
Jordan, those who feel terror of death is the person truly believes that they are matter: they are being something: in this case a meat body. Unfortunately those who fear ''death'' is the person who do not know much about the Universe in general and it's vastness. And what made the universe so vast is the infinitely different realities.
Those who fear death has only one viewpoint only one reality and that is: we only live once, we only have one cycle of life we are born than we will die. [ total nonsense. ]
When the person is willing to steps out of the agreed upon reality: what is considered to be normal than that person can discover very different realities. Most people afraid to leave their comfort zone.
@soloauditor Says:
CLAY: you do not get run over by a truck: IT IS THE BODY GETS MOWED DOWN, HIT BY By that truck.
@soloauditor Says:
WOW.... we are not ''organism'' that is the body. We are Spiritual Entities who are occupying the body. WE DO NOT DIE, THE BODY DIES and when the body stops working we simply move back into the Spiritual Realm. The reason you ''smart - learned'' folks haven't found the answer how to outsmart death: the organism because so far none of you looked into different realities. Which do exists of course but not in the circles you guys move.
It seems, most of you read the same books, debated their contents of those books and where that leave you? None of you have figured out that all of you are asking the wrong questions and that is the reason you haven't got what you are looking for. The right answer, by asking it get the right answer.
So far not one of you have figured out that the body is just a thing and do not contain the thoughts, the mind.
By now you should have understood reading the ''right'' books haven't given the answers so, in my reality in fact those books were not right, do not contain the essential -important answers most people would like to know.
Example: what happens after death of the body. what do we do, where do we go and most of all why we need to have a body in the first place to live to have a life when we are Spiritual Beings?
The answers to these questions are not written in those books. If they would be than by now none of you would be circling around looking for answers.
I am not well known in your Learned Circles: but where counts, where it matters my knowledge is considered to be the truth.
I am happy to answer your questions but I doubt they will be asked, because after all: the English, how I write , the grammar is bad- really bad and the name: the identity is not know therefore the person itself can't be important and what is not important is not valuable, not valuable enough to pay attention to.
@PlanetT1000 Says:
Let’s appreciate that all these contents are free… 🤝🙏👌
@givinthanks1 Says:
Jordan has a way of completely nurding out that leave the others around him quiet. "un yea....anyway.."
@kristariebel4737 Says:
I dont necessarily agree the guest but I think it's great to tell your truth with patients listening
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